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| Thread: Do Online Communities Make Killers? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 05, 2002 09:42 PM |
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Do Online Communities Make Killers?
In the British news recently was the case of a brutial murder carried out by a 17 year old boy. The boy was a loner, who believed absolutely that vampires and immortality were real, and was prepared to achieve this immortality at any price.
His victim was an old lady in her 80's, whom he murdered, drained and drank the blood of, and cut out her heart and placed it on a silver platter. He also left two pokers in the shape of a cross below her body. There was overwhelming forensic evidence that he was indeed the killer, one piece in particular eing a lip print on a saucepan from which the blood was drunk. A disturbing and horrible murder.
Experts and psychologists, and also the media, ready to demonise something other than the boy himself, once again looked to various forms of entertainment as "blame buffers", or massively influential impacts on the life of an already disturbed individual, without which he may not have killed. These factors apparently bluir the bondaries of fantasy and reality for the individual in question, untill they are unable to distinguish between them. It has often been used, throughout the 1990's, as a (albeit weak) defense in court.
Several of these have been blamed before:- "Natural Born Killers", a violent film, was impossible to buy in several countries up untill a short while ago, in the beilief that it could easily influence people to kill. In this case, the "nightmare On Elm Street" series were given a small measure of blame, due to their showing of extream violence.
Another such medium, which has also come under fire before, is computer games. In the early 1990's, when "beat 'em ups" were popular, they were regularly used as a defense in youth courts where it was argued that the defendant could no longer distinguish between the game they spend many hours playing, and the world of reality in which they lived.
However, a newer "great evil" has been heralded this time:- internet communities, tied to an "old great evil"... the D&D FRP. In this case, the killer was a member of a vampire net community and often engaged in RPGs with the group. The fear of RPGs has been around since the D&D game originated, with one article claiming that teenagers actually had been known to commit suicide when their characters were rolled out of the game (I have found no proof of this).
Communities, however, allow us to adopt a persona. For most of us (as we are generally sane), these persona's are just for fun:- Aculias does not really believe himself to be a chimera, and Djive does not believe herself to be a Gnoll witch. Often, our RPG characters represent a quaility we would like to see in ourselves:- for instance, high self esteem when the creator's is low.
But however much we admire or loath our characters and/ or personas, is there any point at which a "normal" individual may find their reality blurred beyond repair by the characters they adopt? Or is this reserved to those who are not quite in the same plain of reality (ie, Psychopaths) as the rest of us to begin with? Also, is it possible to identify those who no longer see it as a game..?
There are no two views alike about this. Many psychologists believe that if "self-deception" in this manner is carried out, the "self deception" (or RPG character/ forum persona) could imerge at a time of great stress... such as losing a loved one. Others believe that the person must have an obsessive personality disorder coupled with psychosis to have the boundaries blurred in such a way:- this has manifested itself in many ways throughout the years, although usually only in religious fanaticism. Others believe that this same psychosis can somehow be induced, ie through drugs.
Are there any other opinions on this..? I know this community as one which is full of good ideas and I am interested in hearing them now.
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 Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 05, 2002 10:02 PM |
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Yay! Cat's back (thought you had abandoned us).
This kind of crap pops up every couple years. I remember when D&D was being blamed for everything that was wrong with teenagers.
There was a recent one of those sorts of murders in the DC area not that long ago - some guy killed his girlfriend's dad with a sword. Allegedly because of Vampire fantasies or whatnot.
All I can say is, Doom doesn't kill people, guns do, well, at least the little metal things that come out of guns at high velocity kill people.
Unfortunately for me, the only game that influenced my behavior was Super Mario Brothers. I'm banned from all suprmarkets in a 4 state radius since I keep jumping up and down on their mushroom section.
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted August 05, 2002 10:05 PM |
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Was his name by any chance Incubus??
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 05, 2002 10:16 PM |
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Bort:- Not to meantion the fierce spate of DIY plumbing that gripped the world in it's jaws.. *shuddes*
Romy:- No, Matthew something- it happened in Angelsea, N. Wales, He was also arrested for asking a german student to bite him, convinced she was a vampire.
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 05, 2002 10:22 PM |
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Quote:
He was also arrested for asking a german student to bite him, convinced she was a vampire.
Wait... we're NOT allowed to ask germans to bite us? This is illegal? Bugger. Well then call me mint jelly 'cause I'm on the lamb!
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 05, 2002 10:50 PM |
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Sure we can ask them to bite us.. but we have to learn that no means no... you can't force people into that kind of commitment...
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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2XtremeToTake
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 05, 2002 10:59 PM |
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this cannot be blamed on anyone but the kid itself, he is 17 for christs sake! he is just mentally disturbed
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
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TheJester
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 05, 2002 11:03 PM |
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Do you want this to be some type of Nature vs. Nature debate Cat, or something like that?
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 05, 2002 11:08 PM |
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Nature Vs Environment? Not exactly, as I don't see media as any kind off environment. I just want to examine the effect of media on psychosis and wether the media is a scapegoat
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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TheJester
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 05, 2002 11:28 PM |
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Well, it seems that media can be used as a universal scapegoat  , but anyways.
Media very often distorts the truth. There was some hour long special on TV on how, and what "tricks" they use to get an audiance.
U.S.A. Example: "The summer of the Shark" A couple of years ago, the media reported the "rising" numbers of shark attacks on the coasts of beaches, and gave it the title The Summer of the Shark. In reality, the attacks didn't increase, but close to the same #'s as previous years. Why did the media choose to distort this?? Because it was a "boring" year, and they had to fill it up with soem story to sell papers and get people to tune in and be interseted.
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Pure_Chaos
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Destroyer of Morons
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posted August 06, 2002 12:20 AM |
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I hate morons that say games influence us, because they DON'T (at least normal people). Blaming games is just parents' unwillingness to accept responsibility.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 06, 2002 12:37 AM |
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Quote:
The boy was a loner, who believed absolutely that vampires and immortality were real, and was prepared to achieve this immortality at any price.
are you trying to say vampires arent real?
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 06, 2002 12:44 AM |
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I admit, an interesting case was that of the killers of Jamie Bulger. Thier defence lawyers held up the film "childsplay" as a bad influence on the murderers, then aged 10 years.
The film in the uk carries an 18 certificate, which surely makes the issue, how were they able to watch it in the first place?
The vast majority of individuals are not effected, nor do they claim to be effected, in any way by computer games/ video/ TV. It is also interesting to note that books are rarely blamed for psychotic behaviour.
A true psychotic can find influence in anything. The infamouys "Son of Sam" claimed that a several thousand year old dog was giving him instructions to kill, when in fact it was simply his own psychosis, teatable with medicine, but undetected.
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted August 06, 2002 12:47 AM |
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OK this is just my own personal opinion.
For someone to go out and in cold blood kill someone then there has to be something wrong. This can be triggered or enhanced if you like by a number of things, but these triggers cannot do harm in someone who has no mental problem. What these people who shout about D+D and beat em ups fail to understand (or more often ignore) is that there is a huge number of people who play these games and do not commit any kind of crime.
Personally I play D+D, FPS (half-life etc) and have seen numerous violent films. I also wargame. But I can honestly say that none of these has ever inspired me to go out and kill or committ crime. These are used as scapegoats for a country and community that often fails these youngsters in not seeing the problem earlier, and they then search around for anything to blame.
I don't wish to get into a religion argument, but I heard once from a mate of mine that there was a similar discussion on a forum he was a member of. Someone suggested banning these mediums as they clearly incite trouble. Another asked if that was the case should all forms of media that incite violence be banned? The First person said Yes. The second said that in that case all the religous texts of the world would make a good starting point. These are a perfect example. Taken as it is the bible is overall a good morally justified book, but any number of people in the past have abused it to cause violence, in the same way that it has been used for peace.
As to the whole nature/nurture debate I don't see this as black and white. Clearly some people are born mentally unstable, but kept in check and treated correctly (ie nurtured) then this can be counteracted. On the opposite side of the coin someone who was born without mental health problems can be badly nurtured into violence and mental instability such as when a soilder returns from war, so traumatised that they cannot escape from the violence cycle.
anyway just me rambling on with my (often pointless) opinions.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 06, 2002 12:49 AM |
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Quote:
A true psychotic can find influence in anything. The infamouys "Son of Sam" claimed that a several thousand year old dog was giving him instructions to kill, when in fact it was simply his own psychosis, teatable with medicine, but undetected.
did anyone manage to get the dog to stand trial?
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 06, 2002 12:52 AM |
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The dog was later adopted by Val and subject to much sexual abuse and torture in various HC roleplays 
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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Cat
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted August 06, 2002 01:08 AM |
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Quote:
Unfortunately for me, the only game that influenced my behavior was Super Mario Brothers. I'm banned from all suprmarkets in a 4 state radius since I keep jumping up and down on their mushroom section.
Eeh.. Bort.. um.. what happened when you went to seaworld, with all those turtles around...?
*cringes at disturbing mental images*
and did they section you when you kept head butting those bricks? I guess that's one way games could affect your mental health.. erm...
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag
http://aozos.com/phpBB2/index.php
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 06, 2002 01:22 AM |
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Regarding the nature vs. nurture debate, a fun thing to say to your parents is : "Nature or nurture, either way it's your fault!"
As to seaworld, I very respectfully observed the sea turtles without disturbing them in any way shape or form. The "turtles " in the Super Mario world are clearly tortoises. This is why I have chartered a flight to the Galapagos islands where I will beat tortoises to death with their own shells in an attempt to gain extra lives, thereby gaining immortality. Now, if computers have taught me anything, it is that these tortoises will vanish in a poof of smoke and not scream/bleed/bite me in my naughty bits in response to my attacks.
Speaking of seaworld, apparently dolphins will occasionally attempt to mate with people who "swim with the dolphins" or whatnot. They're basically the horniest creatures in the sea.
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Darkspirit
Famous Hero
aka Zutus
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posted August 06, 2002 02:04 AM |
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I don't see myself turning into a vicious bird, picking out the brains...
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Sir_Elric
Responsible
Famous Hero
Having a bad hair day.
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posted August 06, 2002 02:58 AM |
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IMO if you are a nutbar then if it's not D&D or horror movies it would be a margarine advert or gardening catalog.
Wouldn't matter, the dude was obviously not a vegetarian and he was couple of sandwiches short of a picnic!
What really ticks me off is he will be stuck in some nutbar asylum burdening the average tax payer for the next 20 years when he should be given a small injection cost/pain free 
I had a close friend killed by a gun wielding maniac at Port Arthur Tasmania in 1996, he shot 19 others dead that day!
Capitol punishment?
I say YES!
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Neverwinter Nights - "City of Melnibone"
Direct connect - ausnwn2.dyndns.org:5121
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