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| Thread: Play the maps as they are made !!!!!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 13, 2004 02:21 AM |
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Play the maps as they are made !!!!!!!
I realize I will get flamed heavily for this post, but I dont care anymore. I get flamed even when I post serious so what does it matter 
I was rather discusted the other night to find out that 2 very talented and capable players felt it necessary to alter a map to fit there play style. And yes it happened to be one of my maps so it prolly had a greater impact, but regardless who made the map I would still have the opinion... If you dont like the map the way it is made and posted then you shouldnt play it.
Not only is it an insult to the map maker, but it negates any reasons for new map makers to create new or different maps with unique styles etc.
Ves confirmed that it is completely legal if BOTH agree to change any map on TOH how ever they like. So basically there really and truely is no need for the original map maker to to ever make updates or fix balance issues etc. I for example spent Hours creating a unique play style for one of my Maps and the players can just alter or change it to what ever style they want. So why should I as a map maker waste any time trying to perfect the map with updates if when it falls into the players hands they can just erase any updates or changes and do as they wish?
And I am sure you are asking yourself, is it really that big of deal? Isnt Jinxer just making a big deal outta nothing? Depends on your perspective. I just realized that I wasted over a month of my time trying to bring a unique different map to the TOH players.
Live and Learn the hard way as always I guess. But atleast 1 positive thing to come outta this, we dont need any new maps ever again, just alter and change the ones posted to make any style game you want.
Jinxer
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 13, 2004 02:41 AM |
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You cant learn to play all the strategies if you take out what was originally planned on the original maps to begin with.
Then again there may be reasons to alter a map a bit for fair play.
Thats the only reason I can think of to alter a map is to give both players a fair chance.
Or make a remix or a part 2.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 13, 2004 03:21 AM |
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The map is balanced, that was not the issue. 
They made it week 4 map instead of week 7 map.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 13, 2004 03:27 AM |
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They should make a part 2 then.
Not everyone like a fast game.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 13, 2004 04:29 AM |
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lol I see your point Aculias, but there is no point to make a part 2 of any map. Anyone anytime can make what ever variation of any map they want. Why bother going thru map council and having map part 2 approved? Or for that matter, any map at all. As I am on Map council, why would I now worry if a certain map is astetically(sp*) pleasing or balanced. ( Balanced is relative anyways) .... players can and are gonna just add or change them however they see fit anyways.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 13, 2004 07:30 AM |
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Yea but some players like fast or slow games,I mean if a map gets altered to change the speed of the game then you have to think.
Is it for the best interest of that map for most players./
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2004 11:23 AM |
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if u make big changes in a map ...then I suggest to make 2 versions of map
UTB is ruined...
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pietjebell
Promising
Known Hero
positive
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posted April 13, 2004 11:52 AM |
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I agree with you, Jinxer..
If you dont like the map, dont play it 
Besides, when decided on a ToH game you can 't edit the map at all, can you?
Would 't be fare! It would not be the map listed 
So maybe (my suggestion);
If you dont like the map:
1. Ask the creator if he would -plz- change it to your likings.. Maybe if there are enuff ppl, he will?
2. create a new one from it, with a new name..
but
Ask if you are allowed
&
Be sure to give credits to the original map maker
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BOOT: what U give yur computer to start
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted April 13, 2004 02:22 PM |
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A few things
Maps will never be altered when playing certain people you don't trust. So the updates are needed to remove bugs and things that can and will be exploited when playing less than honorable players. (And no.. (!) You cannot just "decide not to play them". You will be forced to play people you dislike in certain cases)
A small alteration to a map that has been played several times is not necessarily a big deal. In fact, such a small alteration can remove "patterns" which are normally used when playing that particular map.
Not to mention, it is for 1 game, not forever. If 2 players cannot agree on a map, and such a thing (the alteration) can make it playable by both, what is the harm?
I have no problem playing maps the way they are "meant" to be played. But sometimes it is needed to make it a game Both players can enjoy.
Arangar
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted April 13, 2004 03:02 PM |
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the map remains as it is , with original mapmaker's signature on the right bottom corner.
they dont create, modify or recreate the map, they just set the game rules before the start, some rules request to open the editor. thats all, nothing much.
the game must bring maximum of pleasure that you can obtain from it, and for this reason, some tunning , matching the desires at THAT hour, wouldnt be such a crime and i see also no reason to bother mapmaker to agree with a small change that wont affect the posted map.
and jinxer, to feel better : if you would have not created it they wouldnt have the map to play on or modify.
i modified alot of maps, some of them not even belong to me, just to have a different game everytime, if random is impossible, or to bring some few balance modifications. I think no one would be against this fact as long as it mutually agreed and known before the game.
for instance, equi didnt invent H4, the 3do name will remain , but they brought their valuable contribution improving things. i think this is progress, if there is a way to make it better, why hesitate?
and i say " better" which is a very relative term, according to each one taste.
jinxer nobody force you or some other mapmaker to post the changes or impose their ideas about the game.
if they chose your map to play on , you should think they like it in proportion of 98% , which is more than a maker can expect. look at the bright side.
have a nice day
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted April 13, 2004 03:23 PM |
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 consis, consis
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted April 13, 2004 04:31 PM |
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Quote:
I would still very much like to know what the exact change was to the map. "week 4"/"week 7" tells me very little except when the time expires to have completed the game? Maybe they decreased the time for a turn? I hate guessing. Please answer my question if some one knows it. What, specifically, was altered?
week 4/7 is the approx "break" time. Meaning: the time you break out from your area beating up a tough stack.
This post has no real purpose though, just thought id give whinxer credit for once.
He is entirely correct IMO.
Making up personal changes leads too:
1) mapmakers gets bored trying to make new since players always will change em anyway to "fit" their style. And by doing that they will most likely remove other tactical aspects of a map that the map creator had in mind.
2) might lead to cheating situations because a player forgets to tell a new opponent about the changes made on the new map.
so there
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tewilligar
Famous Hero
Just another willigar
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posted April 13, 2004 05:32 PM |
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for a guy who tries to toss like a vet,consis knows little or nothing lol
reminds me of me
ps jinxer i think you are taking modifications too personally,just my opinion.
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ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzz
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justdoing
Adventuring Hero
#2
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posted April 13, 2004 06:49 PM |
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Jixer i totally agree with you.
i made a 2-player-map some moons ago and its idea is to allow both sides to make choices (decisions) during the game. e.g., trading post or black market? 10 corpse or one pyramid? a second town with level 3 and level 7 creature generators built and the rest disabled or vice versa? etc.
and i really felt insulted when some one told me that it's a STUPID idea.
people need to learn to appreciate.
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted April 13, 2004 07:56 PM |
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maps should not b altered once they hav been accepted for toh play period!
totally agree with jinxer, its nuts.
and am suprised it is allowed and not considered map editing.
its a waste of map makers time and effort to design maps or templates for some retards to go butcher them. if they want to change map, make ur own dam map and submit it to toh.
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2004 11:51 PM |
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yup it's the crime of the century.
never put a tomatoe on your burger or a lemon in your coke to make a great thing even better
[edt] edited out some unnecessary stuff
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Running may not add years to your life, but it will add life to your years
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2004 12:07 AM |
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blop
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted April 14, 2004 04:24 AM |
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Na haile theres stuff better for your coke.
Poor a hugh gulp cup of 75% coke & 25 or maybe even less of like Minute maid carbonated Orange or berry etc soda.
& it actually taste like Orange coke etc hehe.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 14, 2004 07:09 AM |
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Surprised that so many people actually agree with you Jinxer...maybe these people liked your map, but didnt have 7 hours to play it, and wanted to get it done in 3 or 4. Sounds like it is something as fundamental as changing a blocking guard. Would it be akin to say, changing the 50 ancients to 30 on GW. If this is the case, then its a massive over reaction on your behalf. Just my opinion tho.
Btw congrats on the 300. A 10 pin robbed me a couple weeks ago after the first 11 Friggin corners
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted April 14, 2004 11:54 AM |
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aproaching issue with logic.. seems that both sides are right!
thing is.. its about here and now.
imagine yourself at that excact moment where you decide map with opponent, and idea crosses mind for some change
pause here and feel it.. how does it feel? wrong to do?
you dont solve everything by thinking(theories) and making plastic laws.. actually may get things worse
aand as for updating/editing older maps.. i always thought is a good idea.. cause some maps as they are e.g conquest 4 lake, are half maps.. so completing other half would make a whole one..
.. that requires time, experience and inspiration though, so i guess one would prefer to make one from scratch
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