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| Thread: Too Many Spices In The Recipe Spoil The True Taste | |
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted May 07, 2005 04:58 PM |
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Too Many Spices In The Recipe Spoil The True Taste
Having recently reinstalled the original Heroes of Might and Magic game (Heroes 1), I could not help but think of the evolution that our favorite series has undergone since its initial release back in 1995. There have been some good additions and some bad additions, but the issue that I would like to address is something that I think many players will agree...
Heroes of Might and Magic has become a very complicated and complex strategy game, where sometimes detailed graphics and countless additional features have overshadowed the game's original strength...it ease of playability.
I challenge those of you who have the time and patience to reinstall Heroes 1 and revisit this wonderful game. It is so simple, yet it is still challenging and even (dare I say) fun after almost 10 years. Yes, it has its imbalances and imperfections, such as the strength of the Barbarian hero, the power of Dimension Door, and the nonsensical mage guilds where a might hero can be just as dominant as a magic hero, but regardless, I still believe it had the basic ingredients for ease of playability, challenging gameplay, and most of all, a lot of fun (for its date of release) for ALL players.
Now, fastforward to Heroes of Might and Magic 4. If a player was new to the Heroes of Might and Magic series, I bet more-ofter-than-not, that new player would be confounded by its countless features, its complex battle system, and the overall complexity of the game itself. On a personal note, as a veteran of the Heroes series, I recall playing Heroes 4 for the first time and passing over numerous terrain features and sites because I could not differentiate them from their surroundings. Imagine a brand new player, game manual in hand, viewing a map for the first time. I believe it would be more work than enjoyment, at least for quite a long duration, until the new player could readily identify the sites, creatures, dwellings, artifacts, etc.
Now, if you are a veteran player, these issues may be transparent to you. If you are a young, fast-learning new player, the game's complexity may be easily understood and you will be quickly on your way to becoming a Heroes fan. If you are a slow-learning new player, then you were most likely easily confused and eventually frustrated. I feel that is where 3D0 and its programmers (NWC) went wrong, because they alienated a lot of new players who had to immerse themselves in all the details and intricacies before being able to grasp the full enjoyment that many of us have learned and grown to love over the years. (Well, that and the fact that the game had to be patched numerous times for issues that should have been resolved through playtesting instead of rushing the game to market, but that's another story.)
Anyway, please allow me to draw the following picture for you, and perhaps you may better understand what I am trying to say...
I view Heroes 1 as a firmly planted, young tree whose initial roots were King's Bounty. As time passed and Heroes 2 was released, its trunk grew stronger and roots grew deeper, while the trees branches were still growing and it was beginning to blossom. Then came the release of Heroes 3, where the trunk remained approximately the same size, but many more branches and leaves were added. Basically, the tree was in full bloom. Then came Heroes 4, which added so many new branches and leaves to the tree that trunk began to wither under the support of all the added weight. No new roots were being planted to support the additional weight. There were so many branches and leaves that the trunk was being hidden from many onlookers, both old and new. Now, what was once a strong, promising, and blossoming tree had been transformed into a massive, chaotic-looking, unbalanced, and overgrown mess in serious need of some pruning.
My hope is that Ubisoft and Nival are able to successfully trim the unnecessary branches and leaves, so that the trunk can once again grow strong, while adding many new roots for long-lasting support. It's simplistic beauty will attract many onlookers, and perhaps the tree will eventually blossom once again.
Thanks for listening to my cries for salvation, now I have to go back and help Lord Dimitri conquer the Barbarian hordes and Warlock minions in his Heroes 1 campaign. Happy gaming, fellow Heroes!
Love, Peace, and Happiness to all!
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted May 07, 2005 05:09 PM |
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Amen, brother!
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Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted May 07, 2005 05:16 PM |
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i agree and disagree, let me explain. as a lover of heroes and a constant player, i look for bigger, better and harder challeneges. in heroes 3 they introduced another level and the 4 magic schools in heroes 4 they made 5 magic schools. the game must evolve beyond the basics into a extremely complex game. heroes is having tutorials now to better help the newcomers. the manual must be read for all games so that helps and in all, a newcomer that wants to enjoy heroes must buckle down for a few hours to read and learn. so the game is n reach for those that want it
the tree is growing out of reach for newcomers but an branch is long enough for the newcomer to grab on. the tree is also is rising for us veterans making the game more enjoyable for us pushing us into deeper and more dangerous worlds of heroes
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 07, 2005 06:06 PM |
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lmao, i never thought it could be that bad, driving people to fustration, madness, and ultimately, suicide. ok, i understand it's your way of saying things.
as a funeral speech it was quite a good one. how the tree tragically collapsed under it's own fruit: bananas, pumpkins, tomatoes, cucumbers and grapes.
and, first of all, raspberries and the fatal combination of apples and oranges, while no one noticed to take care of it's roots.
*sigh*
btw so far i consider homm2 to be the best in the series, and i havn't got homm1. as i understand, it hasn't become abandonware (or has it?) and ubisoft is not selling it, at least not yet.
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted May 08, 2005 02:51 AM |
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Hi, Gerdash! Hug A Tree!
I believe that you can purchase Heroes 1 in the Heroes Platinum Collection (2002). Check out the review here: Game Zone Heroes Platinum
Unfortunately, I do not believe that it has been classified as abandonware as of yet.
I do know, however, that you can download a Heroes 1 shareware version here Gaming Place Heroes 1 Shareware with the option to purchase it for $9.95 if you don't want to pay the premium price for the Platinum edition.
By the way, I am delighted my tree analogy brought you such joy and reflection! 
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 08, 2005 03:24 AM |
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i find this thread awesome.
Apparently it hasnt gotten its deserved feedback but as a player from heroes 1 an onwards this tree analogy is actally very good if you ask me.
heroes4 does seem like an overkill. To a new member it will seem really complex, while 2&3 was a follow up of the first game (as the tree speach so cleverly showed) it was still able to cope in it.
But for Heroes IV it seems they added a new dimension to a game being fully blossomed or atleast to our knowledge is. This is where i disagree with khayman because IMO there could still be space for improvement on the exisisting tree but we havent been able to see that "thanks" to the new heroes IV tree dimension.
I believe the heroes system can be further expanded and still be supported by the regular heroes tree if its handled correctly. If improvements of the regular heroes tree rather than making new dimensions as potions etc etc take place the series can be taken to a new height. But mixing in aspects which may have turned out succesful in other games into a heroes tree which already is a challenge to learn all about you just make a mess out of the whole thing.
Thats where i think it got off wrong, They tried to spice up the tree with so much "extra" rather than focusing on the existing tree and improve it. Instead of giving the tree more room to expand and blossom up more they added a treehouse to it, a swing etc and made it something different. Something different which could turn out succesful but in this case a n00b needs to learn both about the tree.. and its extra stuff. As for the rest alrdy into the heroes series some like the new things, and some dont.
Taking this analogy one step further, to multiplayer action its actually a great proof that the analogy is good.
The heroes IV players you got are mostly long time heroes fans and knows the concept, many of the best players online have an history of either being a succesful online heroes3 player or is an self exclaimed expert on heroes 3 single player
Anyhow.. there is not much space for the new players. While i for example still see new people in zone when i check in every now and then id be suprised if heroes IV actually got the same amount of new players. And then Heroes IV is alot newer and therefor should logically be more appealing to new members.
And heroes IV is the best selling game in heroes series, but obviously something went missing there as new to the series via heroes IV players dont take the step to playing it online.
So id say the tree analogy is very on spot, funeralstory or not
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 08, 2005 04:14 AM |
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I'm not such an expert on botanics as you guys, so i'm gonna say it simple.
I agree that heroes4 was overcrowded with details and that coould be what made the game less enjoyable, but not becasue they were hard to learn, but because they were horribly combined. And oh, i wasnt gonna say it, but i have to.. oh the graphics! oh the horrors!
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 08, 2005 04:29 AM |
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I agree. I never had Heroes 2, but I have the rest.
Similar to what you said, I recently re-installed Heroes3 which is my favourite of them all.
Although the lesser 2d graphics and minimal features may seem like a downside, it does, as you say, prove to be much more fun.
There was just something about Heroes4 that I never liked, I dunno why.
Heroes1 is fun, but it doesn't have as many cool monsters and stuff
Heroes5 better be modelled on Heroes1-3, although so far, it doesn't look like it's going to be.
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John says to live above hell.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted May 08, 2005 11:10 AM |
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While I don't like to add fuel to this kind of fire. It does remind of the slogan on the back-side of the box of Heroes IV.
You remember what it was?
"It's all new!"
Perhaps, you should be saying they took out the axe and cut down the old tree and planted a new tree?
I don't see Heroes V being much different, but let's hope that the tree has time to grow and florish and is not being put out before it is ready. From what I've seen and heard it looks like the new tree is in for a better treatment this time, and more time for maturing so let's have some faith here, ehh?
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted May 08, 2005 11:44 AM |
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Khayman-- that was a well thought out point you made. Thanks for sharing your insights.
I honestly have no right to be even semi-judgemental in talking about Heroes 4, as I've never played it before. I will, however, be a jerk and go at it anyway. I think Heroes 4 disappointed a bunch of top harcore Heroes fans by adding all the changes and new stuff to the game. I read magazine articles about it when it came out and was shocked at how different it turned out to be. And I'm very disappointed in the fact that a trial version was never released. I think they failed to realize the importance of having a try-for-free release, especially for a game that changed a bit from what the popular series used to be. I'm not even going to talk about making faulty decisions at the game store involving a $40 price tag. That's happened way too often.
I'm willing to give Heroes 4 a chance, but only if I can find a ~$20 copy.
-guitarguy
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted May 08, 2005 08:57 PM |
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Quote:
I agree that heroes4 was overcrowded with details and that coould be what made the game less enjoyable, but not becasue they were hard to learn, but because they were horribly combined. And oh, i wasnt gonna say it, but i have to.. oh the graphics! oh the horrors!
i also think that the tree analogy may be fun, but let's not twist reality to suit the tree analogy.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted May 10, 2005 12:07 AM |
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I think oranges and cucumbers is a nice way to describe H4. They clearly concentrated to develop some new aspects, and they did that well, while forgeting other main aspects, like, the horrors of graphics. It was a dissapointment to use the new refined spell system while attacking a box castle with graphics that seem to suit H1 rather than H5. I won't even start about other graphic aspects like creatures... they are some real rotten apples in that tree.
Unfortunately it seems that Ubi works with the same rotting apples and they will "maturate" the game by extending the other part of the game.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
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posted May 10, 2005 12:17 AM |
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