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damedley
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 08, 2006 08:36 PM |
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Poll Question:
Most Important Creature Statistic
I think this question should be interpreted "If you could get a 20% bonus to one stat for one type of creature, which would it be?" Of course, I'm just making up the number 20% - it could be any number.
I have my own personal favorite, but I think there are several decent choices.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 08, 2006 09:10 PM |
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Most ppl will choose initiative, ofc. But not me ;P It really depends on the unit. If a unit has 7 initiative, adding 20% to it won't change a damn thing, really. But if it has 30 defence, than +20% would mean +6 def, much better than an extra point of init.
Basically adding +20% to the greatest stat gives best bonus, so no vote for me, since it differs much for different creatures.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted November 08, 2006 09:10 PM |
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Initiative seems to be THE stat in Heroes 5
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 08, 2006 09:11 PM |
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not quite. For example, Marksmen with pathetic initiative are gamebreakers. I don't think it matters THAT much.
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 08, 2006 09:18 PM |
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i agree that initiative isnt that important. its just that it varies very much in the game even on same level, much more than most other stats. that makes it seem a gamebreaking stat.
id say the best is hit points. helps against both normal attack and destructive magic.
____________
Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 08, 2006 09:58 PM |
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You can't really say that one stat is more important than the other. It depends on too many factors: what is the creature (shooters don't need speed, no retaliation units are in less need of defence...), what are the other creatures in your army (so that they complete each other), who is your opponent and more...
The bottom line is that only the overall counts .
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 08, 2006 11:09 PM |
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Well, it's hard to disagree that higher Initiative will meen acting sooner and more frequently, which is a quite handy feature, no matter what unit.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 09, 2006 02:46 AM |
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Higher Initiative improves the creature in many ways. It increases the damage potential, allows acting before the opponent and therefore gets first strike. For a defender, initiative is important so that attacking forces can't gang-up on him and attack without fear of retaliation (can be compensated by an ability, unlimited retaliations)
For an attacker, it doesn't help if you don't have good damage and speed
For a defender, it doesn't do good without high HP and defence.
But overall initiative is important to everyone. It is no surprise that Demons and Zombies are the most useless creatures in the game. Not to mention peasants (when in combat)
HP is the next most generally usefull attribute. But as with initiative, creatures can be very good even with a low HP. Blood Furies, Cerberi and all the shooters as an example.
But when you said a 20% increase in some attribute...I would take it to HP for sure. There is no way in H5 that you could get your Black Dragons to have 288 HP. On a 15 Blacks, that would make extra 720 HP...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 09, 2006 08:43 AM |
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Sure, the best property of the creature is not the one where 20 % increase would do you most good. That would have to be either Damage or HP. In all cases, however, a creature that exhels at only one point will always be weak, and therefore, you cannot say that any one property is the best - there are certain combinations, however, that goes well with certain special abilities.
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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted November 09, 2006 02:00 PM |
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I think initiative is the most important stat bacause frequently both sides in combat have a deadly stacks , which can crash almost anything in one strike and the key point for victory is WHO WILL ACT FASTER . This is even more important when opponents plaing the same faction .
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted November 09, 2006 02:18 PM |
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I vote for 20% more sex appeal. 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 09, 2006 04:01 PM |
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Quote:
I vote for 20% more sex appeal.
 Good one.
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RaZmuShaDoW
Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
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posted November 10, 2006 04:00 PM |
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Quote:
not quite. For example, Marksmen with pathetic initiative are gamebreakers. I don't think it matters THAT much.
Boosting the number of creatures can make even the most usseles unit a game braker. Even trippeling the number zombies might win a game (remember king ob zombies Orson in Duels?).
That's why I voted for growth (a real Dungeon freak).
____________
What’s the point of being a renegade if you still have to pay taxes?
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nocaplato
Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
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posted November 11, 2006 05:05 AM |
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Interesting question, but there are TONS of variables that'll change the critter.
Just for kicks I ran up an 'average' level 4 creature and its stats are like this (rounded to nearest whole number):
Attack: 8
Defense: 7
Damage: 6-10
Initiative: 11
Speed: 5
HP: 29
Mana: 14 (only two casters, 15 for mage, 13 for druid)
Shots: 5 (among the three shooters only)
Growth: 5
So the question is, which stat, given time and growth will lead to the eclipse of all others, and allow victory for the individual investing in an army of that sort?
Right off the bat we have to eliminate something like mana and shots. Even though these are good, an increased mana won't guarantee superiority. Casters have spells that add an extra layer of cool factor, but having more mana isn't going to change the tide of the battle. Same thing for shots. Granted, 'Shooter' as an ability makes them way, way tougher, but just adding shots isn't gonna make them rock the field.
Given that attack and defense are so close among similar units, I'm gonna say they can be eliminated as possible choices. Really, these two stats effect each other... a high defense reduces the value of a high offense and vice versa, leaving evenly matched forces with very little gain from a boost (though I tend to favor Attack as a cooler stat).
HP is a cool stat, and very critical, but a few more hit points is probably a weak choice without something else to back it up (like a hero with defense or something). Aggresive tactics tend to be best (from my experience) and HPs are a purely defensive stat.
Speed... good stat, but ultimately it's useless without a good initiative too. Besides, most creatures can get to the battle within 2 moves anyway. And the ones who can cross the field in one usually have great stats in other areas too (especially initiative). Not too valuable in the end.
Damage... Damage is fantastic, powerful, dangerous and very useful. Given the question, a 20% increase in damage could mean an increse to 7-12 for each unit, rather than what's listed above... however, it suffers the same problem as Attack. The higher your opponent's defense, the less valuable your damage range. Plus, it's a random number which means you could be doing as little as 7 per critter (unless you're using a light magic slinger). I like damage, but it's too unpredicatble.
Initiative and Growth. Boy what a toss-up. I'll be honest, I voted for initiative, and it may well still be my personal favorite, but growth has an appeal that trumps so many of the others. The weaknesses of attack, hit points and damage can all be compensated for by a higher growth rate. So can mana and shots if you have a growth rate high enough to split your stacks (effectively doubling your mana and shots). The one and only problem with a growth rate increase is that it has very real monetary (and resource) consequences. Some critters cost ridiculous amounts of cash, and hiring more creates a strategic difficulty that might inhibit its increase. Having a high initiative means you can spend the same amoung of money, but pretend to have more creatures in any given battle.
In the end, I side with growth. The strategic disadvantages aside, it means a big army, and any necro/haven munchkin'll tell you "bigger stacks is better stacks".
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