|
| Thread: Treasury chest options and horse killing (suggestion, not fact) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Wyvern
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted December 18, 2001 07:40 PM |
|
|
Treasury chest options and horse killing (suggestion, not fact)
Well... I haven't given ideas for HoMM4 for such a long time... But yesterday I made up not one but two suggestions that may be of use for the expansions.
The first is not something that will change the game so much - the idea is that when you take a treasury chest you will choose not only between money and experience but there will be a third choice. It will fit because there are three choices when your heroes make level as well. The problem is - which should be the third option?
An artifact? Yes, I know that there was a chance of getting an artifact instead of experience or money but if you have a good chance (not more than 5%) you may choose between the three and the amount of money and experience will be such that you will doubt before getting the artifact. Another suggestion - some of the other resources? It may be useful if you need badly a resource to build/recruit something. Or it may be a potion.
The other idea is maybe not new - probably it has been discussed. Well, if I remember correctly, when the hero is at the battlefield, he is not on his horse (if he is, my idea won't be available). So the horse should be somewhere. I suggest that he should stay without moving like the Ballista. He may be attacked and can't retaliate. The idea of attacking him instead of attacking other creatures on the battlefield is simple - even if you are defeated, if you have killed the horse, the enemy will move slower on the adventure map. So you can easily catch him with a stronger army... I don't know how should you regain a horse. A builing in the town? A special structure on the adventure map?
And there is something more. The elevation effect - some places are higher on the map. I think climbing to such places should cost movement points and going down should cost less movement points than usual.
That's it. What do you think about these things?
|
|
barbarian
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 18, 2001 08:14 PM |
|
|
BTW The hero is on a horse on the adventure map, but in battle his on foot if I am not mistaken.
Quote:
when the hero is at the battlefield, he is not on his horse (if he is, my idea won't be available). So the horse should be somewhere. I suggest that he should stay without moving like the Ballista. He may be attacked and can't retaliate. The idea of attacking him instead of attacking other creatures on the battlefield is simple
.
Didn’t you notice the horse is not in the battlefield from the screenshots there are in every website there is on homm4?
But I can be mistaken
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted December 18, 2001 09:58 PM |
|
|
I think it's safe to assume that the hero just has a backup horse around and going out of your way to attack his horse would be futile. Otherwise it would get really silly with entire armies going out of their way to kill one guys horse.
As for the third option for treasure chests, if you have to try that hard to come up with something good, that probably means you may as well leave things the way they are.
|
|
Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
|
|
posted December 18, 2001 10:01 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I think it's safe to assume that the hero just has a backup horse around and going out of your way to attack his horse would be futile. Otherwise it would get really silly with entire armies going out of their way to kill one guys horse.
I don't know.. but this cold sence made me laugh very hard! LOL! Or do I have a much to high fantasy sight? No I just immaged a whole army orcs heading for a loney weak defencless white horse.. LOL!
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted December 18, 2001 10:43 PM |
|
|
|
if you were a homm4 hero and you were going to a battle, would you dismount? if you would, then why?
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted December 18, 2001 11:11 PM |
|
|
I imagine they dismount to make it easier on the graphics program 
But that's another reason why I would be against it. The horses are just an abstract thing, it's not something that should be attacked.
And even in high fantasy I can't imagine a horde of orcs just ignoring their hated enemy who is slaughtering them to concentrate their attack on a single white horse.....
|
|
Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
|
|
posted December 18, 2001 11:27 PM |
|
|
Hey nightshade..
But what about if it's a nightmare?????? LOL! Or worser! A ZEBRA!
I already see it..
O guys ignore that Hero! There is he! it's black! it's white! it's A zEBRA! Kill and attack!
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
posted December 18, 2001 11:53 PM |
|
|
flashback:
...a legion of proud elven warriors are marching through the green fields... led by a known hero... his every word is their command... suddenly the hero raises his arm... "stop"
...a group of orcs, appears and they raise their crossbows ready to strike... without any warning, their chiftain, shouts... "STOP!!! don't shoot at the elves... kill the horse!!!!"
"The death of a great horse" - Tirith Gobenass, son of Herdir Pennas, Third Age - Memoirs of a warrior
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 03:25 AM |
|
|
|
lol, that was great. Alas poor horsie I knew him well......
|
|
barbarian
Famous Hero
|
posted December 19, 2001 07:36 AM |
|
|
But think of this in another way, maybe the horse can have special skills that you can teach him, like special spells that only the horse can learn.
____________
It's optional.
|
|
Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 09:10 AM |
|
|
Horse skills
1. Horsesence
2. Horse's A$$
3. Horse shoes (ranged attack)
4. Horse's petute (for those too sensitive to read 2)
5. Horse whisperer
6. Crazy Horse
7. Iron Horse
8. Trojan Horse (for horses who get lucky)
____________
<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>
"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."
|
|
afm
Hired Hero
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 09:11 AM |
|
|
Third option
Quote:
The problem is - which should be the third option?
An artifact?
There are lots of possibilities, i.e:
1-) gold
2-) expierience
3-) one of the following (chosen randomly):
a) a smaller number of expierence _and_ gold
b) increase of the heroes' overland movement by 1 for a few days
c) a few spell points
d) a small number of level 1 creatures
e) increase a primary skill for a few days
f) a ressource
g) luck/moral bonus
h) removing of shroud in a small radius
i) minor artifact
j) possibility to buy a war machine
Best wishes
afm
____________
|
|
Wyvern
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 11:09 AM |
|
|
Hmm... Why not attack the horse? This may prove to be a good strategy. Why do people attack Ballista, Catapult, First Aid Tent and Ammo Cart? This would allow new options to the game.
And it seems that no one is interested in my idea about the elevation effect...
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 12:37 PM |
|
|
The third option fit together with the two first. If you find Gold, you can give it to the local peasants or keep it. If you find something else you must keep it. So a) doesn't really fit. You already get either gold or xp.
The logic in heroes 3 is:
Choice of (Money or Exp) OR Artifact
The logic is not:
Choice of (Money or Exp or Artifact)
or
Choice of (Money or Exp) OR Choice of (Artifact or Exp)
---
"e) increase a primary skill for a few days"
That's a bit more diffcult in heroes 4. The primary skill works differently than in heroes 3.
"h) removing of shroud in a small radius"
Since you picked up the treasure chest the shroud is already removed in this area. I believe this works best with placing Spyglasses and the like in the chest.
"j) possibility to buy a war machine"
War machines are now gone. Also this is a bit counter-productive. A treasure chest should give you something not take something away.
Another question that comes to mind is: if you take the experience and have several heroes in the troop then will you then get to choose which one gets the XP or will each of them get XP. If there's no heroes in the troop then I guess, you'll just need to take the gold since creatures can't gain experience. So a chest that can give only experience is not good.
When it comes to making choices I believe, I'd like to get extended choices when I've completed quests. So Seer's Huts and the like should give choices to a greater extent. I'm fairly confident that the script system will support it, I just hope mapmakers will use it.
About the horses... I believe the horses would be considered booty for the winner. They could be sold for money or used by your own army. On the other hand, the horses are not really there, they're just a graphical effect on the map.
This is just one of those times you shouldn't ask for too much realism.
If you find the horse missing the horse strange, then consider that Melody, the female halfling alchemist appears as a full-grown human female on the battle-field.
I would say that it's much more unrealistic/strange that the hero appears to be human when being a halfling (or other race) than the horse is missing.
That said I don't expect we will see animations for each race for each of the 74 possibile combinations of class and sex. Just too much work and animations to produce.
|
|
barbarian
Famous Hero
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 01:18 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Horse skills
1. Horsesence
2. Horse's A$$
3. Horse shoes (ranged attack)
4. Horse's petute (for those too sensitive to read 2)
5. Horse whisperer
6. Crazy Horse
7. Iron Horse
8. Trojan Horse (for horses who get lucky)
Maybe that’s a dame idea after all but what if the horse will level up when his hero does and gain speed,
____________
It's optional.
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 06:31 PM |
|
|
Well I can imagine an army going out of it's way to destroy a massive war machine, or to destroy it's enemies ammunition supplies, or to take out an entire cadre of healers who are supporting the enemy.
I just can't imagine an entire army going out their way to just kill a single horse that's not strategicaly important for the battle in any way, and probably can be replaced for a couple of gold pieces.
|
|
Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 09:33 PM |
|
|
I don't think horses should be able to be killed; there should be no horses, just Heroes ride whatever their most horse-like creature in their army is.
____________
<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
|
|
UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
|
|
posted December 19, 2001 09:50 PM |
|
|
The elevation effect
Changing movement rates for going up or down in elevation is an interesting idea, Wyvern. However, I think a more important effect of elevation should be related to the Fog of War. If you're on a hilltop, you should be able to see a bit further. If you're in a valley, your sight line should be restricted.
Both these concepts (effect on movement and line of sight) make even more sense on the battle map. It's very nice to place missle units on a hill where ground troops will have to work harder to get to them, and your own ground troops can charge down on them. And, hills should improve missle line of sight. Of course, flying units would be unaffected by the movement penalty here
____________
Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
|
|
afm
Hired Hero
|
|
posted December 20, 2001 02:14 PM |
|
|
Line of sight
Quote:
If you're on a hilltop, you should be able to see a bit further. If you're in a valley, your sight line should be restricted.
Both these concepts (effect on movement and line of sight) make even more sense on the battle map. It's very nice to place missle units on a hill where ground troops will have to work harder to get to them, and your own ground troops can charge down on them. And, hills should improve missle line of sight. Of course, flying units would be unaffected by the movement penalty here
Not only hilltops should affect the line of sight. A forest should reduce it to 1 or 2, on open water you should be able to see a lot further. Lava should increase l.o.s., too. And magic terrain does not need any reason to decrease/increase the l.o.s.
An interesting idea is IMHO to reduce the l.o.s _behind_ a hero and increase it in front of a hero - so that it makes a difference if he/she is facing north, south, east or west at the end of a move. Corresponding with this idea it should cost a minimum of movement points to turn around.
afm
|
|
niteshade
Known Hero
|
|
posted December 20, 2001 06:24 PM |
|
|
Well it seems that if terrain realisticaly reduced line of sight like it should, it would make the scouting skill almost useless. It's already a bad skill in H3 (who knows how it will be in H4) so we certainly don't need to make it worse.
Now maybe if seeing passt those terrains required scouting that would be different.
|
|
|
|
