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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted October 13, 2003 05:51 AM |
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Excuse me.
I think all of you - all of us! - should apologize and feel ashamed. It's a thread about suicides. Not about who hurt whose feelings, when and how. Why should all threads end up like this, members poiting fingers at each other, forgetting the initial topic. Please, abstain from this. And I mean it like in I-beg-you-on-my-knees please-please. Pointing figers won't do the trick, peeps. And it certainly, as you can see, is the source of aggravation and annoyment at both sides. Or of more sides, as more people read.
If you don't get in offensive mode, others won't get in defensive mode. Not to mention that exactly these two modes are the main source for people to feel like crap (and just so I drag it back to the main point), and when crap accumulates, we wonder why people think about suicides.
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God does not need exist to save us...
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 13, 2003 03:52 PM |
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The thing that upsets people is not the statement of an opinion, it is the use of things like *sighs*. That's condescending and rude.
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Drive by posting.
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted October 13, 2003 05:08 PM |
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Funny you should choose something as neutral as "sighs"to connote the problem here, and manage to overlook such comments as "Pointless Hudson" and "since he came all we ever get is criticism" (which, to 'state my opinion,' is bull****). Personally a response with "sighs" is a damn site softer than I might have responded if someone had made those rude and inflaming comments to me.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 13, 2003 05:39 PM |
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Well, to give the entire quote that you're using :
Quote:
arguing that your right & everybodys wrong is Pointless Hudson.
Sometimes Aculius' punctuation can be confusing (sorry Aculius, but it's true, I'm trying to keep you from being misunderstood here)
"arguing that you are right and everybody else is wrong is pointless, Hudson."
What's wrong with that?
If you think *sighs* is neutral, I've got a bridge to sell you. You know damn well that it means "I can't believe I'm dealing with an imbecile like you."
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Drive by posting.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 13, 2003 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
That's condescending and rude
I find it "condescending and rude" to have to repeat what I mean over and over again frankly.
Quote:
"I can't believe I'm dealing with an imbecile like you."
I'll play the violin for your/his hurt feelings. I do get a tad sick of repeating myself yes, if you choose to think I believe Acu to be an imbecile, which btw I don't, but thanks for reading between the lines for me then go ahead, I won't get all offended if you or others have a low opinion of me  I don't really much care what you may think of me to be frank.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted October 13, 2003 08:51 PM |
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 13, 2003 09:12 PM |
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I've said what I wished to, people will think what they want to think. All I tried to repeatedly say was that I felt not all mentally ill people choose to die and to claim that all do is probably not seeing the whole story through not experiencing the same things I have. Suicide is a horrible thing, but it's not always a "choice" as such. I know this because I've recently seen it occur in someone I love dearly.
BUT I have not clamied that people do not choose to die through suicide, that would be niaeve and wrong as facts and logic show otherwise.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 13, 2003 10:25 PM |
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We all have dif point of views thats what makes us human & the beaty of it all, not being the same person then the other.
I am not used to you type of fun Hudson but I seen people do it like how you described it to me.
I find it boring but thats just me I would rather go party & have fun etc.
Not trying to argue just spoke my mind which in private I usually get flamed for it usually especially my comment towards Cathrine.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted October 13, 2003 11:50 PM |
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Bort, for once, and with respect, I must disagree with you on your stance about *sighs*. Many including myself use both the action and the word to express anything from frustration to complete contentment, depending entirely on the context of course. Webster's defines "sigh" as:
"1. (v) to let out a deep audible breath as in weariness or sorrow. 2. : grieve; yearn."
Let's just put it this way. If you're right about this, then I (and many others) need to change our sighing habits. But I do think you're reading intent in here that is not present.
As for the Pointless Hudson comment, well I think I must stand corrected here. Your "Point" is well taken. Sorry if I misunderstood, Aculius. Apparently I'm the one who read too much in here.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 14, 2003 03:59 AM |
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Lets Try To Stay On Topic
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 14, 2003 10:37 AM |
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I never said Hudsons Pointless I was saying no use arguing about it cause no matter the outcome he will be right at the end, it has to be that way or it will never end.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted October 14, 2003 03:52 PM |
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(why do I feel the urge to repeat myself)
*sigh*
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted October 14, 2003 07:53 PM |
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In general these people have gone through a lot of problems with themselves mostly. You don't just wake up one day and think: Oh what a good day to off myself. Suicide is the last straw..when nothing else seems to relieve the pain inside and struggle within.
Ofcourse there are also those under the influence of some sort of drug. Is an overdose suicide? or is it suicide once you're addicted to the drug...slowly killing yourself. In fact..someone who drinks excessively and then dies of the effects of that, don't they in fact suicide aswell?
Is there a difference between suicide through addiction or suicide through troubled lives? Or is the only difference the time limit in which the suicide takes place
Ok..sorry guys I lost my point..brb
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 14, 2003 09:23 PM |
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Quote:
(why do I feel the urge to repeat myself)
*sigh*
Join the club 
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 08, 2004 09:20 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 13 Feb 2004
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What I Think About Suicide
First I want to respond to some of the people that have posted thus far in this thread.
Milena, you sound like a very loving person. It's nice to have someone who is willing to share and listen in a relationship, be it friend or acquaintance.
Romana, you seem like a very considerate person. I very much enjoy your compassion. I hope it becomes contagious to other members as you increase your post count. Good point about life being a struggle. I agree.
RMS, you were the first to address the issue directly and with good conscience. Heroes Community is a good place with moderators like you.
Nickman77, I feel like you are a person who is very direct and to the point. I think people might misunderstand you with so much directed force and not enough listening.
Aculias, You have a beautiful mind. I sympathize with your loss. Consider yourself a good man because of the time you have devoted to learning information on this matter. Because of people like you society can hope to approach this subject with education as opposed to ignorance, and training as opposed to apathy. I also feel deeply sorrowful over your personal experiences with your friend that had epilepsy. I am sorry for your pain. I cannot possibly know what you feel but I'm willing to listen whenever you are willing to talk.
Malkia, your point strikes me to the core of my being. Taking life in any form, be it your own or someone elses is a terrible thing. I will say more about this in my own words following these responses.
Gimmickless, you are right. Acceptance is something to look at. I will continue to listen more while applying questions to this area.
bjorn190, your point is well taken. I agree that in order to reach a person it must be on a level that the recipient can relate to. That way he or she might feel all the more special when talking and being listened to.
Frenzie, good relationships are hard to come by. This is truly a rare thing these days while suicide is not so rare. I think this approach is good for only a small portion of the people affected by the suicide condition. However by offering your opinion you have covered this direction well. Thankyou.
Hurragutten, I feel the same about your response as I do with Nickman77's. Proactive is good but we must make sure we are just as willing to listen as we are to fix the problem.
Icedragon, that is an unhealthy relational condition you describe known as "co-dependancy". I'll say more about this in my own words following these responses.
Lith Maethor, all I feel from your posts is pain. I don't know why or how but I feel so much deep pain in your posts. I am sorry if you have pain. I will definately listen whenever you decide to post more of your personal thoughts and experiences.
Hexa, shocking....simply shocking story you tell about your nephew. I am shocked and I am so completely sorry for your loss. The loss of a person so young is so confusing to me. I am so confused and shocked. I would like to discuss your loss more but out of respect for your loss I will let you initiate the discussion on your own terms at your own leisure. I would gladly respect your wishes if you told me to mind my own business as well.
Batvanio, environmental circumstances eh? Interesting point and I want to think more about what other variables might be involved in suicide.
Oldtimer, I feel like you were left with an emptiness. I don't know your life's experiences but somehow, it seems as though you were left feeling like you could have done something to change what happened. These things happen and well, I don't know much beyond that fact. I'm sorry. I guess that's more of nothing to help you. I'm sorry I wasn't more helpful but I don't know your personal experiences.
Slava14, the first and only person to admit that you have no experience with this subject. Interesting point because some people are saying this sort of thing happens to everyone. With your testimony that proves it to be false. Hmm
Wesley, you need help. I don't even know where to begin. Of all the posts that I have seen in this community yours is by far the most disturbing ever. I don't know if a person, in such a dark place as you, will ever recover but I certainly hope so. The darkness that can sometimes consume us...you're in it lad. I don't know I guess it's just so disturbing to know there are people out there like that. It's chilling to say the least.
Frostwolf, similar to bjorn's post, good point. Connecting to a person's problems can be of great help when you are trying to learn how to combat them. I think it also helps them become more accepting of you as a listener.
tigerangelz, ugh the story about your gramps in-law. That makes me feel sick to my stomach. How disturbing. A murder/suicide touches on what Malkia was saying. He pointed out that once you cross the thresh-hold then you put yourself in an entirely different set of rules. As for euthanasia and post-partum depression I definately want to have more discussions on those subjects. I'm uneducated when it comes to such things and would like to learn more. I'll try to say more about this in my own words after these responses.
Privatehudson, god bless you plain and simple chap. Maybe no one has told you this but you're a hero for helping your sister and her children. May god bless you for doing what's right. You're a good man.
Soccerfeva, religion is yet another avenue to explore for this subject. Thanks for pointing that out. It seems to be a dilemma for you though. Like you said, "damned if you do damned if you don't". Now that's what I call confusing!
Goodpig, you also agree to the environmental circumstance theory eh? This definately needs more discussion to help educate the rest of us on this interesting theory.
Makka, in fear of growing old someone might commit suicide? Hmm, that seems a bit to general for me. I'd tend to think not so much the fear of growing old, but the loss of youthful activities which may have been self defining to the person.
Arachnid, I needed a filter to understand what you are trying to say. Surely you can't be serious can you? Make it look like an accident? That's a terrible thing to say.
Khaelo, that's a good point. Emotion can indeed overwhelm reason at times. I know this from experience. Good point and I agree.
Peacemaker, I agree to remind people of the rightful struggle. I agree that each person's struggle to understand is legitimate but what if that struggle starts by being overshadowed with inner pain-directed-ignorance. i.e. "I want to understand why they did this because they are stupid!" Clearly an example of how a person can seek answers while feeling hurt. Do they really think the person is stupid? No, but calling names isn't helpful. We have to break down those natural barriers that pop up when we get hurt personally. Otherwise the process of healing might seem as though it's an obstacle course.
Nidhgrinn, such a good point. Intraverted criticism with no outlet for the recipient is exactly as you say, self destructive. I agree completely and yet I haven't a clue as to how to combat it. Perhaps you could offer some advice.
Quote:
I'll put my own words in some quote bars. Ok, here's my perspective on the matter. I attempted suicide on myself. I didn't tell anyone. I used my own knowledge of prehospital care to forcibly bleed myself to death in a tub of water. With my experience as a paramedic I gave myself two intravenous large bore ports in both antecubital fossas. I began bleeding and then I laid back in the tub of water and closed my eyes. I thought to myself, "Sleep and it will all be over. There won't be any pain, only cold then nothing". Three hours later I woke up in a pool of my own blood but not dead. For some reason, I didn't die. By all scientific accounts I should have. I was cold and I got up out of the tub thinking, "How could I screw this up too?" I was very depressed. It was shortly after that I met people who became my friends and changed my outlook on life.
Environmental circumstances? Yes I had some. Relational attention deficits? I had those too. Did I tell anyone? No. Since then I have remarried and started a family of my own. I have a son and two daughters now. I met my wife after this and her strong personality was a refreshing take on life. If I had died then I would never have met nor had any children. I wouldn't have come to this community nor made any new friends.
Is suicide an act of cowardice? I don't know. Is it an act of self-centered selfishness? I don't know. Am I coward? That's for you to decide. I am fully aware that by posting my past it opens me up for criticism and scrutiny. I'll respect your opinions. This is only my account.
I must ask myself, "Did I cross the thresh-hold? If I was willing to take my own life does that mean I was willing to take someone elses?" The thought frightens me deeply because I learned from this experience that many of my base perceptions of what I thought were reality were, indeed, turned on their heads. What I thought was a loving wife that would never let me down turned out to be false. What I thought was my life's most proud achievment in the special forces of the airforce turned out to be false. It seemed like all my truths that I held to be my basis for living crumbled beneath me. After having realized it was all a lie to myself I became shocked with horror as I questioned what reality really existed. Was I an airforce soldier married to a beautiful woman or was it all a hoax? Was I willing to kill myself only? That was my only question. I didn't think of killing anyone else but logic dictates that the murder of yourself is just as murderous were it someone other than yourself. At that point in my life I said, "To hell with logic, who cares? I can't even die right!" So, by throwing logic out the door I think that left me open for other illogical decisions. That is truly frightening. That is truly something to be afraid of. In this case I suppose I was lucky for the small amount of illogical behavior that I chose to invent. However once you throw away your ideals then that makes you a person of desperation. As I always say, "Desperate people do desperate things." That is neither good nor bad because this is a state of obedience to one's own struggle for answers. It's a chaotic struggle. If the truth hurts and you can't face facts then what will you do? Therein lies insanity. That's the thresh-hold I almost crossed.
Personally, I feel very disturbed about tigerangelz's story because that says to me this man was poisoned by revenge. At the point he was ready to take his own life he may have said, "I bet they'll all be happy when I'm gone. Well, I'm going to make them pay by taking their most prized posession with me and since I'll be dead I'll have the last laugh." To me that is one sickening individual. That is what I call evil. Once you let revenge rule your life then you might as well be labeled "Satan". Forever will it dictate your actions. You just lost your right to choose and gave up your individuality for some kind of lowly vengeful creature. No conscience = no humanity to me. When a person chooses to give up their humanity then I reserve the right to treat such a person for what they truly are, an animal.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 13, 2004 09:37 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 13 Feb 2004
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I Don't Care If This Is My Second Post In A Row
Shortly after I stopped working in pararescue two of my squadron's helicopter's collided in a night mission that involved many of the people I went to a wedding with the week before.
If I was still working with that squadron, if I hadn't opted to retrain I would have been on one of those choppers.
When the news arrived from my friend, he told me that a couple of new guys, fresh out of graduation school that needed the training, were the ones who did the flights. As usual I love training other people and at my old squadron you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that was willing to do night-flights voluntarily. Everyone had to do them because it was required for a number of reasons.
Anyway Lt Youngblood was one of the pilots. He was a nice guy with a dead-pan sense of humor and I wondered if I shouldn't have been on that flight. Apparently they were taking some out-of-unit brass on some kind of show and tell up at Indian Springs.
As I think back, I remember how I once again thought about suicide because my job was to save lives. Especially to save pilot's lives who I went to a wedding with and sat next to the week before in a huge Las Vegas casino. Maybe If I was still in that job and hadn't lost my nerve under the divorce of my first wife I could've been on that flight and held those newer airmen in a higher state of readiness. I don't know. In night flights we pararescuemen hold the left gunnery position in the H-60's and keep a clear eye out with nvg's for all terrain and any other obstacle coming too close to the bird. Apparently none of the guys I worked with were on board. That means these new guys didn't have proper supervision for the flight. Even though a pararescueman graduates from school he is still considered an apprentice because once he gets to the new duty station the rules change according to the environment.
I wondered how I could live with myself for being so selfish and stuck in my own little world. Because of my tunnel-vision I copped out of an elite job and left behind others to pick up the slack where I would have been responsible. I live with this now. Suicide is no longer an answer because I have a family now and they depend on me, whereas back then I didn't. Youngblood's face stays with me and so does his sense of humor. He was a good man and I liked him even though he was a relatively new pilot.
The respect those guys deserve for staying in the job and weathering the everday obstacles faced in life is at the very least admirable. I'm not the man I once thought I was but I make sure that I spend everyday trying to make up for my mistakes for back then. That was 1997 before Iraq and before September 11th. If I had kept my nerve I would either still be doing that job in Keflavik, Iceland or I would be dead in those choppers.
Either way, I would never have met my wife of 5 years now or had these children. To which do I owe the greater responsibility? I'm going to choose these kids and my wife because as I have said in another thread: "They give you reasons for living just by existing". I love them. There's nothing I wouldn't do for them. I'd give up the shirt off my back if it meant they could have food, clothes, and a good place to sleep.
I just want to say to all the people who consider suicide:
Don't do it because when you make it through all those tormenting questions asking if you should live or die you're family will be waiting for you in future. The kids you have and the friends that will depend on you will never get that chance. They deserve a chance to live and struggle through life but they can't do it without you.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 13, 2004 07:57 PM |
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Well another of my friends commityed suicide,over his X wife that took everythang from him,from his business to his sanity.
A divorce,Takes all his money,had her father an expert on com bug his com with the best viruses & his house.
Forcing illegal procedures to happen where no one but people that know him to believe he is not crazy.
X wife taking thousands of dollars for her own amusement & alot more just because she couldnt get the type of unfair divorce she wanted.
Theres alot of cruel people in this world & it happens everyday.
It's sad how much women can get away from using thier women powers.
Out here in America, all a woman has to do is call the police for any reason & we go to jail.
If theres an argument & even if we call, we go to jail, even if the woman dont press charges.
If they find one bruise on them, even if it was one a week ago from somethang else we go to jail.
Even if we dont lay a hand on them, & only the woman does WE go to jail.
A woman gets fed up with us & call the police for any reason WE GO TO JAIL.
Woman have that power to abuse it if they wanted to & theres nothing us guys can do about it.
A friend of mine got into a big fight with his GF.
I know he never lay a hand on her, but she hit on him like I dont know what but, HE calls the police on her & he still goes to jail, over a bruise she had a while back from somethang that she inflicted herself.
He goes to jail for a few months for domestic, even when she says she wont press charges.
It's a new law partially after the O.J Simpson case.
Mostly after an incident not to long ago.
A man was beating her wife & the cops came & she decided not to press charges & they had to let him go.
Few minutes later right in front of the cops,
He shoots her dead.
If he was prosticuted,it would of never happened.
Not sure what yalls think of it but I think it's a womans power thang & it's in most way BS.
Even my best friend went to prison over a warrant he never even knew of 7 went to jail for over 5 months because his GF despised him breaking up with her & said he trespassed in her house on a certain day.
We got drunk & on halloween went to jail for a day except him, because of the warrant we never knew he had.
We tried to know what happened & how it was BSD but the cops only believes the women.
They wouldnt even hear us out.
So he goes to jail for over 5 months for missing his warrant they would of sworn he got lol.
How would he know if he never even been there.
I should know I was with him on the exact days she accused him of trespassing, & we were quite far from her place lol.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 14, 2004 12:49 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 13 Feb 2004
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T.P.O.'s Are There To Help Women Make Up For The Strength Difference
Aculias,
You are completely right my friend. That is exactly how it was used against me. I know because I speak from experience. Just as you said, I too, felt helpless when I went to jail for the exact same situation under slightly different circumstances.
Here is what happened to me:
After my ex-wife divorced me she sought a temporary protection order against me for reason of: "fear". In other words she didn't want me to be near her. The T.P.O. was given by a judge in court to which we both attended and I learned very quickly that judges don't need much evidence to grant a t.p.o. All she said in court was that she was afraid of me.(a conjured statement made through a volley of tears) The order itself restricted me to stay outside a 100yd radius from her. This included phone calls from me and letters. Absolutely not allowed. My response to the judge was this: "Your honor I don't understand this attempt at a t.p.o. because I have already taken one out on her through the military to which has already been served to her. I'm not even sure if it is legal to be in this courtroom with her." The judge responded, "Okaaaay, well, whatever the truth may be it's obvious you both should stay away from each other for now and in the future." And with that he granted the t.p.o. It was that simple. This was shortly after our divorce. Well, after a year went by I was told by a person at the county courthouse in Vegas that the t.p.o. had expired and could only be re-instated by the judge. I thought that was the end of it. It was after that word that I started courting Jennifer(my wife) and visiting her at her residence. The reason I had to make sure was because she lived in the same apartment complex as my ex-wife(which was within 100yds).
(I've already stated in a different thread how completely low this relationship between her and I had sunk.)
This was about a year after the lowest portions following the divorce to which she stated, "it's purpose was to get us back together in the long term". Odd logic, I know.
Anyway long after the divorce(about a year) she and I continued a purely physical relationship(yup sex only). It was at this time that I met my wife of today. Well, the ex found out I was courting another woman and did her usual stalking bit with me. Through her clandestine operations she became aware of my spending time with her and staying at her apartment over night. Also, through her carefully planned scheming, she faked an injury to be admitted to the exact hospital that both Jennifer and I worked at. Not only the exact hospital but she also targeted the exact department that both myself and Jennifer(my wife) worked in so as to keep a close eye on us. She also used techniques such as "networking" with other patients to get information about how they saw us behaving with each other. Well, one morning, my ex-wife was pulling out of the parking lot of the hospital while Jennifer was driving in. Apparently,(as Jennifer tells me) the two wouldn't let each other's car pass by. Whatever the case, Jennifer feels she won, LoL. So when they both eventually got by, the two decided to park. My ex gets out of her car and screams, "You don't think I know?" Jennifer says that she and her both exchanged some harsh words to which ended with my ex threatening that she could put me in jail at any time she pleased. Naturally, Jennifer scoffed and continued on her way. As she turned around to look behind her she said she saw my ex pulling out her cell-phone to use it. Well, guess where I was at that very moment. I was in Jennifer's apartment at that time kicking some serious buttox on my playstation that I had brought over.(I believe the game was Twisted Metal2 and I was decimating Paris with roadkill) Anyway as I was sitting there in front of her T.V. playing the cops almost broke down the door and rushed in, pinned me to the ground, half naked, and said, "You're under arrest". I spent three days in jail waiting for Jennifer to bail me out.(bail was posted at one thousand dollars.)
To this day both Jennifer and I think that the judge gave her permission to re-instate the t.p.o. at the drop of a dime with a phone call to the police station. You see, once the first t.p.o. is granted(I learned) the judge doesn't need another hearing to re-instate it. He can authorize it effective immediately if he is notified of serious pending circumstances. Guess what the police told me when they nailed me to the floor. I was under arrest for harrassing my ex at her apartment. Ofcoure I didn't learn until a phone call(yes the only one you get from jail) that it had occurred during the time that she was arguing with Jennifer in that parking lot. That's right folks a bogus phone call made from the parking lot telling the police that I was at her door doing who knows what. And since I was within the 100yd radius that was all the proof the police needed to put me in cuffs. That's all it took. One phone call and I hit the slammer face first.
Let this be a reminder to all men who think women are small, petite, and easily handled physically. This ability more than makes up for physical differences, trust me. Guys, whatever you do, don't ever confront a woman to her face. That one single incident can be called, "striking fear in the heart of a female victim" simply because, in general, men are physically stronger than women.
You want my advice? If a girl get's angry with you, just run. Run far away unless you want to end up in jail.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted February 14, 2004 12:56 AM |
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oh sure..why don't we start generalising
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 14, 2004 01:08 AM |
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We Must Flee
Romana,
I'm not kidding about that last post. That really happened and I'm left with a lot of fear for women in general. I don't think you know the power of a woman in america. It's no joke when I say "run if she's mad". If a guy decides to stand there and argue in her face then she can eventually toss him in jail with a few tears and a dramatic plea to a judge.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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This thread is pages long: 
