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| Thread: difficulty for computer | |
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BlazeHun
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 11, 2012 11:35 AM |
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Where do you place Heroes games on this when the starting conditions and resource rates are the same?
http://xkcd.com/1002/
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odium
Known Hero
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posted January 11, 2012 11:58 AM |
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Edited by odium at 12:06, 11 Jan 2012.
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Is the map known to both of them? If the human has played before on that map then the computer must be given full knowledge of the map (where resources are situated, mines, castles, artifacts). This will be the easier case. However, if the map is unknown (random), things get more complicated . Given the amount of investment done by Ubisoft in the AI of Heroes than I would respond "Computers may never outplay humans". However, I believe Heroes to be a game where computers could potentially beat top humans.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 11, 2012 12:54 PM |
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Heroes should be in the second from bottom - the amount of possible outcomes are so big that an intelligent human player shoud be able to outsmart the AI.
Sadly, that's not really the case, AI cheating and scripting seems to place the game either in full bottom (AI is completely incompetent and hence never wins) or closer to top (AI cheats so much that he wins by sheer amounts of ressources and troops).
Somehow, it seems that developers think that by outbalancing these two things, they can make it hit the sweet spot in the middle (AI is silly but they make cheat scripts to balance for this), but that's not really the case - a combination of an incompetent AI that cheats can simply never match the experience of a competent AI that doesn't cheat.
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What will happen now?
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 11, 2012 02:10 PM |
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As you say, if the starting conditions and resource rates are the same, then:
Heroes I & II - computers can beat top humans
Heroes III - computers can beat top humans
Heroes V - computers can beat top humans (although heroic is not applicable as starting conditions are bias)
Heroes VI - computers still lose to top humans
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 09:25 AM |
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Quote:
As you say, if the starting conditions and resource rates are the same, then:
Heroes I & II - computers can beat top humans
Heroes III - computers can beat top humans
Heroes V - computers can beat top humans (although heroic is not applicable as starting conditions are bias)
Heroes VI - computers still lose to top humans
how clever of you to leave out IV
i disagree tho, all ai with same starting conditions and resources will lose. in all heroes.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 13, 2012 10:18 AM |
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Maybe you right Avalon, except for Heroes I & II, as computers had no bias advantage (extra resources, etc) but were damn clever!
(why can't they make AI like they used to, although probably had simpler dynamics to work around...)
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httassadar
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 10:29 AM |
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Does S&L count?
Honestly, can you beat heroic computer without hitting LOAD at least once?
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 02:55 PM |
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Quote:
Does S&L count?
Honestly, can you beat heroic computer without hitting LOAD at least once?
No i cant, the only reason being that i never finnish my games in one session. but i never explore / do battles and then reload when it dous not go my way. i load but i never reload.
So saving and loading is not a fair option if you ask me. seeing as the ai dousnt do that ether.
and besides dousnt the herioc ai cheat? imba start etc etc? the only reason for this being is that the ai isnt smart enough to give you a "chalange" and needs help. atleast that is my oppinion.
i would not know about heroes 1 and 2 tho i only started playing since 3.
But i would place it on the second from the bottom.
And you know what they say. a program is only as smart as the person that wrote it. Up your usisoft 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 13, 2012 04:37 PM |
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Quote:
Heroes III - computers can beat top humans
Heroes V - computers can beat top humans (although heroic is not applicable as starting conditions are bias)
No it can't. Absolutely no chance whatsoever and there were better players than me.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 05:43 PM |
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Computers can't beat humans in III or V. Unless of course you give them 20x bigger army than yours and set them up on a small up, but that doesn't really count 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted January 13, 2012 06:52 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Heroes III - computers can beat top humans
Heroes V - computers can beat top humans (although heroic is not applicable as starting conditions are bias)
No it can't. Absolutely no chance whatsoever and there were better players than me.
That's right. After checking Maretti's movies and similiar, I'm consistently winning the game on H3 random maps as soon as I find the opponent.
Heroes V is pretty much same, but didn't try it for long. Power creeping => win.
As I said many times already, H3 is much more complicated than most of games with good AI. The number of possible actions avaliable for player is hard to list down on its own. Now try to describe them in detail and make any sense out of it!
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 13, 2012 06:59 PM |
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Erm... a single Heroes III AI on Impossible doesn't stand a chance against everything above moderately skilled human, except maybe if it can rush you very quickly (first few days). I've beaten 7 impossible AIs allied against me for 3 months back then when I was playing "against the computer" and I was quite a n00b at that point.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 13, 2012 07:10 PM |
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AI should be played against on custom maps, not randoms. Where everything is set to give him a chance. Either it is ridiculous, at any difficulty.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 16, 2012 11:09 PM |
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I think computer could easily beat humans on most earlier heroes games.
However we are looking at two different things here. Computer's brute-force ability to beat the humans is severely hampered by current Heroes' games AI's programs implementations.
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