|
|
Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:22 PM |
|
Edited by Baklava at 18:22, 01 Mar 2014.
|
@Kip
Goodness gracious, man, what's with the Jews. We're not on 4chan here.
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:28 PM |
|
Edited by xerox at 18:32, 01 Mar 2014.
|
Zenofex said:
What do you suggest then, economic embargo? Better check where the gas comes from then. The EU is VERY interested to stay on Russia's good side for the forseeable future, you can bet your ass that they won't do anything major no matter how many times they repeat "laws", "human rights", "sovereignity", etc. in public. The US can't do much but wave its democratic finger and repeat how worried it is about what's happening in Ukraine. There's an unwritten rule in the international politics that Russia's immediate neighbours are considered Russia's external territory as far as the spheres of influence are concerned. That's nothing new.
As for Putin's Russia repupation - another nonsense. Russia under Putin improved internally and internationally immensely and everyone sees that (perhaps except the Swedish libertarians). You think that a government of a country that has never been even remotely democratic gives a damn how the Western media describes it? You seriously need a huge dose of reality check coffee.
Gas is becoming less of a problem. European countries are actively trying to become less dependent on it and Russia has zero interest in losing important consumers that support its rather weak economy. Obama can do a lot more than just wave fingers at the rising imperialism of Russia.
There are barely any Swedish libertarians and i'm not talking about the media, i'm talking about relations between states. And if you don't think those will worsen for a state that breaches treaties and international law, then maybe you need a reality check coffee.
Baklava: Russia has a treat with Ukraine allowing them to have a military base on Crimea. It doesn't allow them to essentially occupy territory outside of that area. That there are Russian citizens and military interests in Ukraine does not justify for Russia to violate treaties and international law. It's also unnecessary to escalate tensions in the country like that. I don't think there will be a war but the West can't just let Russia get a free pass at these things. Russia must be contained and know its place.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
justify
This word is used to start wars, not prevent them.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:33 PM |
|
|
They aren't preventing war, they're increasing the risk of it happening.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:35 PM |
|
|
I'm not a very tolerant man anymore Bak.
You get to tend this way if you value your land and the "nation's patriarch" which is a bloody jew rants about how bad a refferendum to forbid foreigners to buy real estate is, and it can get us kicked out of evrosojuz on a national holiday, it really tends to piss you off. all he rants about is "Russia will then buy all the lands!", which is absurd considering russians cannot buy any land since 1991 or so. It is against Lithuania's constitution.
You think that over 300000 legit signatures would be enough. its 1/10 of the populace. Switzerland needs only 100000 to initiate such stuff and there are about 7 million swiss out there.
So where's our snowing democracy?
We're also supposed to get the euro next year. without the agreement of the people. this is also anti democratic.
There was also a referrendum if we need an new nuclear plant, most people said no, because our one which the brussels bums forced to close was i tip top shape got ignored. so where's the snowing democracy? why the snow do we have to bow to stupid yanks and their snowing jewish overlords? look what happened to palestine after the basterds started to buy it's land like there was no snowing tommorow.
This is bogus. Really. But yea, I get it. not supporting Ukraine's bandits isn't politically correct. But political correctnes and me aren't the things that blend well with each other.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:39 PM |
|
|
|
xerox, it's pointless to try to convince you, you just have no idea what you are talking about. Sit tight, buy some popcorn and watch the development. For the pro-EU types this fight was lost before it even began. Now the only real problem is whether it will escalate into something even uglier.
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:48 PM |
|
|
what's the most laughable about this situation is when a couple of russians drop by for a spring break by the Black sea, and every nut is screaming "ZOMG! OCCUPATION!"
Shouldn't there be killing, taking over goverment buildings, and you know, war stuff?
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:48 PM |
|
Edited by Baklava at 18:51, 01 Mar 2014.
|
@Kip
Fair enough. Let's leave it at me remaining unconvinced about - specifically - the Jews being the root of Eastern European problems with pro-Western authoritarianism.
As for taking over government buildings, there's been quite some of that.
@Xer
Kosovo's independence goes against international law and UN treaties as well. Exceptions are made when someone's strong enough. And then we can wave worthless pieces of paper around all we want.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:51 PM |
|
|
Zenofex said:
xerox, it's pointless to try to convince you, you just have no idea what you are talking about. Sit tight, buy some popcorn and watch the development. For the pro-EU types this fight was lost before it even began. Now the only real problem is whether it will escalate into something even uglier.
What exactly is it that Xerox is wrong about?
kipshasz said:
what do we know about Syria? from the media? They only tell what they're paid for. So unless we grab our guns and go see it for ourselves, I doubt we'll know the truth.
yanks can say "obama is a dick" all over the snowing web, even wipe their asses with an image of the master negro, but If I post a rude comment about Lithuania's politicians, I'll end up in the slammer. so where's the snowing freedom of speech? Where's the freedom?
Oh, right we have some yank puppet in here who wishes to turn my country into the Jerusalem of the North.
If you will not trust any media at all then you should go and grab those guns of yours and take a look OR just stay silent about things you know nothing about. The best way is to take information which you can't confirm yourself with a grain of salt and accept the possibility of it being more or less incorrect.
If the "slammer" is what any level of rebels get in your nation, then perhaps it is your turn to protest or revolt against your government. Though, by our own words, you would deserve to die horribly for trying to fight for your rights... 
And what do you mean exactly with the yank puppet trying to turn Lithuania into a Jerusalem? Who on earth would think of Lithuania as some kind of Holy Land besides lithuanians themselves? 
____________
|
|
Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 06:59 PM |
|
|
@GunFred
Remember that time when the Syrian government used chemical weapons against the protesters, and then in tiny letters you could here and there find out, some time later, that there was absolutely no proof of that, and that, according to the testimonies by the locals, it was the rebels who used it?
Xerox is wrong about the West being responsible or overly caring for the situations in unstable countries bordering Russia. What they did was support the rebels on the off-chance that the Russians would be too busy to react, and now they'll throw a few insults and a threat or two and call it a day, while the Ukrainians get the sharp end of the stick.
This is the same thing they did in Syria, Egypt, Libya, Georgia, Kosovo, Yugoslavia etc. Sending weapons and making promises, where it suits them.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:02 PM |
|
|
@Gunfred: Throughout history Lithuania was the most tolerant state for jews in Europe. where in the rest of it blamed the basterds for plagues and pretty much everything.
Well, up until the whole Lietukis garage pogrom during WW2.
You don't end up in the slammer for "fighting for your rights" in here. most "protests" which for the past few years revolved around a huge pedophilia scandal were nothing more but some brainwashed people drawing "We want truth" on the square in front of the presidential palace with colored chalk.
make an insulting online comment on the current ruling politicians and that will net you up to 2 years IIRC. almost instantly.
So yea, here's the EU to you. Surely the maidown bandits don't think that the bums of brussels will build them a bridge to the bright tommorow.
Honestly, when this whole crap started I supported them. Now, not so much.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:04 PM |
|
|
Quote:
You get to tend this way if you value your land and the "nation's patriarch" which is a bloody jew rants about how bad a refferendum to forbid foreigners to buy real estate
If you don't want sell your land, is anyone going to hold you at gunpoint and force you to sell it? I doubt it, unless your country is even more corrupt than I thought. What you want is to prevent other people from selling their land - because your neighbors' land isn't yours. Value your land all you want, and let other people do what they will with theirs.
And stop being anti-Semitic. If anything, European Jews should get credit (no pun intended) for being cosmopolitan and anti-nationalist.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:07 PM |
|
|
can I buy land or real estate in Germany for example? no. I can't. Because I'm not a kraut, and that means I can't buy it, only rent it. their reason is: "If your roof leaks, you won't know which materials to use to fix it"
That's what we're aiming for in here as well.
and I'll be anti-whatever-the-bloody-snow-I-like. so yea, up yours.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:14 PM |
|
Edited by Zenofex at 19:17, 01 Mar 2014.
|
Quote:
What exactly is it that Xerox is wrong about?
- that Russia has "bad reputation", whatever that means;
- that the EU is independant from Russia;
- that the Russian economy is weak;
- that any major power gives a damn about the international law when you have major strategic interests at stake.
- that Russia can be "contained" in such a sitation.
Let me put it bluntly - there's no Hollywood-style happy end out of this situation for Ukraine. Get used to the idea. The country is de facto split between Ukrainian Russians and their Western brothers/sisters/cousins for a loooong time and the guys from the Eastern part are not so fond of the idea to join the EU or to turn their back on Russia. Putin has many ways to racketeer any Ukrainian government that starts to become too "Western" (reference - Yushchenko) even without armed forces and from military perspective can not afford to have problematic governments in the backyard. And then, we have nukes in the equition. Speak as much as you want, the EU, the US and all other big players know the end of the whole thing and will only try to save face and look like the good guys until it's over. Wanna bet?
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:17 PM |
|
Edited by xerox at 19:19, 01 Mar 2014.
|
Zenofex said:
xerox, it's pointless to try to convince you, you just have no idea what you are talking about. Sit tight, buy some popcorn and watch the development. For the pro-EU types this fight was lost before it even began. Now the only real problem is whether it will escalate into something even uglier.
Wow, I can feel the arguments toppling me like i'm the World Trade Centre or something.
Here are two good articles on Ukraine (and Russia):
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/140980/kimberly-marten/crimean-punishment
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/140976/serhiy-kudelia/ukraine-in-context
Baklava: I don't know a lot about Kosovo. Was young and not much into politics back when there was a lot of media about it. Also you say I'm wrong about the West being "responsible" when what I'm saying is that the West is not acting responsibly and should be more active.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:19 PM |
|
|
kipshasz said:
can I buy land or real estate in Germany for example? no. I can't.
Source? Because this and this say otherwise.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:22 PM |
|
|
I'm pretty sure that there are so much bureaucratic bullsnow which stalls the whole purchasing so bad that'll you throw in the towel.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:24 PM |
|
|
Baklava said:
@GunFred
Remember that time when the Syrian government used chemical weapons against the protesters, and then in tiny letters you could here and there find out, some time later, that there was absolutely no proof of that, and that, according to the testimonies by the locals, it was the rebels who used it?
Xerox is wrong about the West being responsible or overly caring for the situations in unstable countries bordering Russia. What they did was support the rebels on the off-chance that the Russians would be too busy to react, and now they'll throw a few insults and a threat or two and call it a day, while the Ukrainians get the sharp end of the stick.
This is the same thing they did in Syria, Egypt, Libya, Georgia, Kosovo, Yugoslavia etc. Sending weapons and making promises, where it suits them.
I remember that the USA government really wanted an excuse to get rid of some weapons on Syria so that they later could buy new weapons from their friends for taxpayer money. It was hilarious when they had Kerry's own dishonest words for peace turned against them and their prize was lost. But what about it?
Did Xerox really say that he believes that the west genuinly cares for ukrainians and other border states? I know he said he wanted NATO to act but did he say he thought they would in the end?
Zenofex said:
Quote:
What exactly is it that Xerox is wrong about?
- that Russia has "bad reputation", whatever that means;
- that the EU is independant from Russia;
- that the Russian economy is weak;
- that any major power gives a damn about the international law when you have major strategic interests at stake.
- that Russia can be "contained" in such a sitation.
Does any superpower have a good or even neutral reputation? He was saying that Europe was working on becoming less dependant on russian gas I think.
____________
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:27 PM |
|
|
I had a discussion about this topic earlier at work, but that devolved into talking about how **** democracy is; likening it to asking your kids what they would want for dinner, you'd get as many answers as there are people, and each of them crap. And it further devolved into a discussion relating to South African torture methods, all explained in a highly humorous and entertaining manner.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
|
|
posted March 01, 2014 07:46 PM |
|
|
Zenofex said:
Quote:
What exactly is it that Xerox is wrong about?
- that Russia has "bad reputation", whatever that means;
- that the EU is independant from Russia;
- that the Russian economy is weak;
- that any major power gives a damn about the international law when you have major strategic interests at stake.
- that Russia can be "contained" in such a sitation.
EU is not independent from Russia. Just the opposite.
International public law, as its real name is nothing. Its political fable.
Russia can be contained, but must not be. I see nothing bad in this. Its a lot of territory populated with Russians. Its sad that they won't split the country. I'll not beliеve if it happen.
And I pity the Ukraine guys that did this just for the sake of EU. EU stinks. I won't get into details. It only harm the poor states of Europe.
____________
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
