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| Thread: Heroes 7 pre-release review |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:41 PM |
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I agree with the 1 champion per week only thing. In H6, we had too many champions and not enough core-elites.
Ashan tears only works against stupid AI anyways. Any good player just finds one piece, stash it in his main base and voila. No tears for anybody.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted September 14, 2015 03:42 PM |
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Kayna said:
I agree with the 1 champion per week only thing. In H6, we had too many champions and not enough core-elites.
But what about increasing their weekly growth to 2, like it was in Heroes V and III? 
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:49 PM |
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*shrug* I can't answer your comment. Balance depends on all the other aspects of the game, and I don't understand the game well enough. Heck it's not even out yet!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:50 PM |
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:50 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Kayna said:
I agree with the 1 champion per week only thing. In H6, we had too many champions and not enough core-elites.
But what about increasing their weekly growth to 2, like it was in Heroes V and III?
Pick champion from HV. Make it twice more powerful. Decrease by half its weekly growth. Profit.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:51 PM |
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Except that they have a lot less attack and defense. If that's twice as powerful...
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3lion
Known Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:55 PM |
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 03:59 PM |
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I agree that in h6 we did have too many champions, but it was result of the skill-system which gave +1 all creatures in skills. As result you had two dozen heroes just standing by in corner increasing the production. I don't see any reason why in h7 however you would only have single champion per week when it clearly rocks the boat in favor of core-units as being the strongest units in terms of weekly power.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 04:57 PM |
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I didn't think the champ production was much of a problem. It's weird only having one but most of the maps had champion dwellings fairly close by so I didn't feel like I didn't have enough champs. What they should do is give the player a choice of which champion to recruit when they capture the dwelling.
With that said I do wish some champions had more growth and were weaker. Sword masters, cyclops, and magic birds could work well with that.
The rest could use a slight stat buff but I like the enormous amounts of hp.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 14, 2015 05:58 PM |
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Salamandre said:
All that is very nicely put, but not a single point about lack of optimization? The delay between turns, the delay while loading game, this is screwing the experience. Then don't forget one thing related to it, which Civ 5 taught us: even if editing tools are strong, the fact that you need several minutes to get into the game, test your script and fix it if need, is going to have a huge impact on your enthusiasm.
There is optimization and optimization. On one hand the AI turns are long as hell, but on the other hand, you can make this game run on very, very weak machines.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2015 06:10 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 18:19, 14 Sep 2015.
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Yeah, when I played the beta. From a technical point of view, my first game was perfect, zero crashes, game running smooth on an old core 2 duo, didn't notice the AI slowness, only some slow loading mostly in the beginning, but it was a small 1x1 map.
In the next weekend, I played a large map, then this time I noticed some issues people were reporting, very slow AI and some crashes here and there.
But I only played 2 games, so I can't talk much.
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 12:54 PM |
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The issue with only 3 tiers of units is creeping - T1 units are all you need - even in the 2nd and 3rd weeks of the game (HoMM7).
HoMM3 has a serious demand on your army - it's IMPOSSIBLE to beat someone with tiers1-3 and it's imperative to get lvl6 units ASAP - to be able to creep through shooters of lvl 2 and 3
so there is much better creeping, leveling and progression
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 01:09 PM |
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xlnt said:
The issue with only 3 tiers of units is creeping - T1 units are all you need - even in the 2nd and 3rd weeks of the game (HoMM7).
HoMM3 has a serious demand on your army - it's IMPOSSIBLE to beat someone with tiers1-3 and it's imperative to get lvl6 units ASAP - to be able to creep through shooters of lvl 2 and 3
so there is much better creeping, leveling and progression
To me that sounds more like an issue from H3, than an issue on H7. If you need to rush for certain units, it means that build orders won't be flexible enough to hold variety/flexibility.
As in H7 you could choose between rushing to get champions/elites, or play around cores longer.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 01:22 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 15, 2015 01:28 PM |
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keldaur said:
As in H7 you could choose between rushing to get champions/elites, or play around cores longer.
Town level 9/12 requirement with a bunch of prerequisites (with some of them making no sense) is no rush. In H3 a skilled player ie can have Angels day 7 (with Castle built on day 6 to boost growth) and still has enough resources to recruit on day 8, but that is also because there is creature banks and such on the adventure map.
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 01:49 PM |
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Acquiring something taking the shortest path avaible is to rush towards something.
I am not saying that you gave up in economy or growth, i said that your build order would then be forced to get the Angels (using your example) to compete. Which kills variety on build orders.
Champion units on H7 seemed to underperform (they really aren't that bad as you guys are making them out to be tho) for a few reasons imo :
- Growth buildings double the number of creatures, making them in the long run twice as effective.
- Trackers just eat them. And they have a very high offense also, not even close to other t1 creatures (i think it was around 6, when for other T1 core rangeds was offense 1-2).
- Creeping is hilariously easy in this game.
Doubling stats on champions would work, but i prefer if they rebalanced core units (tracker's skill should be -% defense instead, their offense is too high), and growth boost buildings (1,5x should suffice).
And that all, would be a lazy bandaid. I don't mind stalkers being good, but their growth and price should reflect it. The game lacks assymetry between factions in that regard.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 15, 2015 03:03 PM |
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keldaur said:
I am not saying that you gave up in economy or growth, i said that your build order would then be forced to get the Angels (using your example) to compete. Which kills variety on build orders.
But isn’t the more powerful creatures the ones you want to aim at ASAP? Restrictions should be minimal, is the player’s skill which should have impact, how fast you clear the map, flag mines (as a reminder Elite and Champion dwellings used to be more resource hungry in the old games), get extra money from banks, capture early castles, loose minimal amount of troops while doing so etc, not what the game imposes you to do. I’m curious to know what makes you think the overwhelming pre-defined construction paths and town level restrictions as seen in H7 beta gives more variety on build orders, if anything, I precisely find these restrictions to be another killing variety factor, as I fast enough had the feeling of being a grandpa while building towns. You basically just have to wait more, is why I said I didn’t feel like rushing.
I think same goes with building up of heroes, just go for optimized paths as there is no real viable alternative and bore yourself to death doing so.
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 15, 2015 05:21 PM |
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Edited by keldaur at 17:28, 15 Sep 2015.
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If there are choices to be made, i don't mind any system. Having a most powerful stack to aim for, and a lot of useless stacks, does nothing but make lineal the build order.
Yes, your ability to creep will say if you get it or not, but the optimal build order, remains the same.
Freedom does not equal choice when it comes to min maxing. It's interesting you bring this up, as many people complain about the H6 skill system, yet you would only choose one path since that was the optimal. Build orders and skill orders, are no different in that regard, if to compete you must acquire X as fast as possible, you will follow the shortest and most optimal path towards it, thus killing variety. The reason why i don't play on free mode on H7 than for testing purposes.
The current system is not perfect, but it allows you to play around cores longer withouth feeling like you are crippling yourself. Growth boost do exactly that right, since investing into them is like "buying" a second building to hire the same units. And since they are not crap, it is a decent investment to do, maybe even too good and one of the reasons why champions feel underwhelming compared to those stacks that already had weeks worth of growth.
"The meaningless" buildings, are mostly about the long run buildings, investing into them short term is not beneficial, but it sure is long term. Not to disagree that there are too many buildings, and that the building requirements are in some cases too extreme, but it is certainly workable.
Regarding balance, it also alleviates any early game weaknesses different factions may have, reducing the gaps between creeping potential from factions (but not from classes tho).
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted September 15, 2015 09:11 PM |
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keldaur said:
If there are choices to be made, i don't mind any system. Having a most powerful stack to aim for, and a lot of useless stacks, does nothing but make lineal the build order.
I must disagree with this 'useless stacks'. Every stack in H6 had it's role. Aiming for level 7 creature is good, if you are skilled enough, and you will be rewarded for that. But, saying that other stacks are useless is false. You can do a lot with all of the stacks if you know how to use them, and I don't see usefulness of stack measured only by damage they do. The way you can use them is important too.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 15, 2015 10:04 PM |
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xlnt said:
HoMM3 has a serious demand on your army - it's IMPOSSIBLE to beat someone with tiers1-3 and it's imperative to get lvl6 units ASAP - to be able to creep through shooters of lvl 2 and 3
Well, the first part is partially true. It just depends on other factors. Same can be said about the second part - you can just get better skills, improve stats or just increase your army.
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