|
| Thread: Wanna throw away some money? Buy Homm4 ! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Godlike
Tavern Dweller
|
posted April 12, 2002 05:58 AM |
|
|
Wanna throw away some money? Buy Homm4 !
NO COMMENT !
____________
|
|
Tortoise
Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
|
|
posted April 12, 2002 06:03 AM |
|
|
Tell me again... how long did you play this game exactly??
No Comment.
____________
All living things have a history. The history of the Tortoise is long and rich.
|
|
Jenova
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 12, 2002 08:23 AM |
|
|
I take it you didn't like them game, eh?
I was thinking of shoplifting it myself, but in the end I paid out of my pitiful pockets.
Since everyone is doing it, here's my first impressions.
The game is mostly good, but I don't like the new changes to combat (though the new perspective is great). There are also many other changes which I didn't like. The interface looks a bit TOO fancy, with all those buttons smothered everywhere.. the first time gamer needs to keep waiting for the tooltip before using each button. And why can't you double click on a castle to get into the town view when you have a hero selected but don't want him to move there? The spellbook interface, though nice looking is very clunky. Again, too many bookmarks all over the place, not easy to use in a hurry.
Some units in combat walk very slow. The line of sight archery is annoying. Archery units are severly penalized in this game. 1/4 damage? Ugh. If someone is blocking the back target, there's not much else you can do. Mages aren't ranged anymore? Crap. Titans lose to the crappy Dragon Golems? Argh. Have you seen the melee attack animation of the female Order Mage hero? HAHA.
Gold is way too scarce.. I'm finding it very difficult to afford 4th level creature dwellings in the first month or two. A lot of my strategies need to change. In previous games, I used to rush my way to the top level troops before pushing far forth and conquering everything (I use the top troops as meat shields). Doesn't work anymore. I have to move forth with crap units so I can get more resources to afford the 4th level troops. Of course by then my hero will be many turns away from my castle.. Thank god for the new caravans. The grail is disappointing. 3000 gold a day? Pathetic. The Citadel in H3 already gave you more than that. My main gripe is the lack of resources. Gold mines are also rare.. In the few hours I've been playing I haven't seen one yet.
Now onto the good things. Graphics are neat. The swamp doesn't look swampy enough though.. I thought it was grass at first. They should make it look like a swamp, and have it going up to your hero horse's knees, to denote how slow it is to pass. Grasslands aren't lush enough. The lava tile looks great though.
I like how the heroes have a different horse for each alignment. The heroes look mostly good, though some are generic. The nightmare horse and Zebra are awesome. But I wish they used a larger variety of mounts, such as unicorns, pegasi (air) and camels (desert).
It's a good thing that now the terrain penalties in the adventure map are shown in the arrow lengths of your path, unlike in H3 which removed that for some reason.
The new hero skill system is also pretty cool. I like the way you advance your skills. The advanced classes though seem advanced only in name. The class specific abilities are quite minor and don't really justify much of a change in name. Some of them are plain useless.
They didn't give us a manual.. only a PDF 64 page piece of crap, and two other chart PDFs. Do you have any idea how long it took to print all this? They were image intensive and my printer had to load into memory each page one at a time.. Meaning instead of printing each page continuously, it had to do a long loading before each page. Was a pain and I feel ripped off. I knew I should have shoplifted it, doh!
Has anyone noticed that army units seem to be able to move very far without the hero, but when you put a hero in they don't move quite as far?
In the end, I think it's a good game. Has many changes, some good, some bad. I can't give it a 90% score, the best I can do is 75-80%.
____________
|
|
Pure_Chaos
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Destroyer of Morons
|
|
posted April 12, 2002 11:54 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Do you have any idea how long it took to print all this? They were image intensive and my printer had to load into memory each page one at a time.. Meaning instead of printing each page continuously, it had to do a long loading before each page
You seem to have missed out an even more important factor: I use printer for important things (ie assignments etc). Wasting paint on printint out a manual, which I should have gotten WITH the game seems somewhat absurd to me.
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted April 13, 2002 11:25 PM |
|
|
The h4 may be a good game, but it's not what it's ment to be. And that says someone who played it long enogh.
Well, if I had the multiplayer option I would have played it even more, but since some guys at nwc or 3do or whatever didn't endulge me, that's it...perhaps this year later?Or maybe not, some delays, some postpones, just to make a crap even crappier.
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
|
|
posted April 14, 2002 03:33 PM |
|
|
I like it, don't mind lack of manual because I rarely use it... but elite give you printed manual anyway, so I don't understand why they didn't just give it in both elite and normal edition since (here at least) they both cost the same...
Quote from Jenova:
Quote:
And why can't you double click on a castle to get into the town view when you have a hero selected but don't want him to move there? The spellbook interface, though nice looking is very clunky. Again, too many bookmarks all over the place, not easy to use in a hurry.
This doesn't help you much, but you can hit escape to deselect your hero, then double-click the town. It's totally unintuitive (I found out when trying to quit a game - that's what ESC should DO!), but it's good to know.
Quote:
Some units in combat walk very slow. The line of sight archery is annoying. Archery units are severly penalized in this game. 1/4 damage? Ugh. If someone is blocking the back target, there's not much else you can do.
I like the archery, because the 1/4 penalty only applies if they're at range AND behind an obstacle. And with the simul. retal the melee units have to deal with (don't get me wrong, I like that feature as well), archers are still quite powerful against melee units.
Quote:
Gold is way too scarce..
I prefer it that way. In 3, you got a lot of gold and not enough resources. And it's hard to sell gold for resources, they're just too expensive. Now we have less gold, but resources are more abundant. Most towns are only resource hogs on 4th level dwellings and creatures, and then it's just one particular resource. Sell unneeded resources and you can do okay. You still have to juggle your finances, but it's doable.
I would give the game a 9/10, because at its heart it's a great waste of time. But it definitely could have used a better interface, and I was really hoping for more of an AoW battlefield. Not as big as AoW, but maybe 2 screens wide and 2 tall... that would have made battles feel a little more big.
____________
|
|
Jenova
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 14, 2002 03:42 PM |
|
|
Interface is very sparkly. Looks good, but too complicated for newbies. They could have made it more intuitive. I am still waiting for the day you can finally select to move a long distance on the map without it telling you that it will take 4+ turns to get there but instead the actual number of turns.
Heroes are too weak. My level 20 hero got killed by a stack of vampires. Not that many either mind you.
The problem with archery is that there are TOO many obstacles. And my archers always find themselves in the back row for some reason, and not only am I unable to hit the opponent's back row, their front row takes 1/2 or 1/4 damage which means I have no choice other than to send the archers forward or wait for the enemy to approach. The enemy's archers are also typically at the back, so you can rarely ever touch them. These obstacles also make it difficult for big walkers like Dragon Golems to get through. A lot of units find themselves having to go the long way.
The sieges are pathetic. The walls are no taller than the units, and the moat looks like a flat texture map. I liked it better also when you had a catapult.
There are other problems I have with the game, but somehow I've forgotten.. I will play some more and write down notes whenever something needs criticizing.
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
posted April 14, 2002 10:53 PM |
|
|
|
There seem to be so many bad things that you might write down a novel...
|
|
Godlike
Tavern Dweller
|
posted April 15, 2002 04:11 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I take it you didn't like them game, eh?
In the end, I think it's a good game. Has many changes, some good, some bad. I can't give it a 90% score, the best I can do is 75-80%.
You have posted a lot of good points of view ! Too bad the good point are flaws in the game  The failure of HOMM4 requires a perfect HOMM5 and soon or a killer patch that would add in HOMM4 all the good things in the part 3 of the series !
____________
|
|
Jenova
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 15, 2002 06:42 AM |
|
|
I still like the feel of the game.. The graphics and the new alignments (towns, heroes, spells) are worth the money. The game doesn't beat Heroes 2, but if I had the chance to go back to the time before I bought it, I still would have bought H4.
However, some annoyances of H4 will make it a title that I will stop playing completely after going through all or some of the campains. It won't be a game to keep me coming back for more like H2.
Hopefully 3DO will not release more than 1 addon pack, unlike HOMM3.
|
|
Krishhh
Adventuring Hero
still learning spells
|
|
posted April 15, 2002 12:59 PM |
|
|
quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Heroes are too weak. My level 20 hero got killed by a stack of vampires. Not that many either mind you.
The problem with archery is that there are TOO many obstacles. And my archers always find themselves in the back row for some reason, and not only am I unable to hit the opponent's back row, their front row takes 1/2 or 1/4 damage which means I have no choice other than to send the archers forward or wait for the enemy to approach. The enemy's archers are also typically at the back, so you can rarely ever touch them. These obstacles also make it difficult for big walkers like Dragon Golems to get through. A lot of units find themselves having to go the long way.
----------------------------------------------------------
Get the combat skill!!! It is the only skill that strengtens heroes for a nonmagical fight!! My level 20 heroes are real strong.
So, you are annoyed that your archers always do 1/2 damage or sometimes 1/4? Well, For your knowing it WAS the SAME way in H3, only there it didn`t show how much the damage was reduced.
What`s bad with archers at the back? They are weak in melee and thus are protected by your strong creatures.
But really if yo want to change your placement, in the adventure map for the default formation it is shown as it will be in the combat.(4 in front, 3 in back) and there you can place your troops as you want. For the other formations check the CD manual, but I usually use the default.
____________
Promising student of magic.
|
|
DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
|
|
posted April 15, 2002 05:58 PM |
|
Edited By: DonGio on 15 Apr 2002
|
It's stupid that you have to get the combat skill in order to stand a chance in combat.
(OK, I know it looks like nonsense, but it is sense. You shouldn't be forced to emphasize one skill to be able to live, thrive and survive (and evolve) as a hero)
It makes it very hard to focus solely on magic (which I think one should be able to), and I find it very troublesome even with combat if the hero himself or an additional hero doesn't have Life magic.
It works well in the campaigns, where the heroes carry over, but in single scenarios, they get killed in almost every other battle, and the only reason you keep them is to flag mines and attack towns.
Heroes are way to weak, if you ask me.
____________
There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
|
|
brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
|
|
posted April 15, 2002 09:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It's stupid that you have to get the combat skill in order to stand a chance in combat.
(OK, I know it looks like nonsense, but it is sense. You shouldn't be forced to emphasize one skill to be able to live, thrive and survive (and evolve) as a hero)
It makes it very hard to focus solely on magic (which I think one should be able to), and I find it very troublesome even with combat if the hero himself or an additional hero doesn't have Life magic.
It works well in the campaigns, where the heroes carry over, but in single scenarios, they get killed in almost every other battle, and the only reason you keep them is to flag mines and attack towns.
Heroes are way to weak, if you ask me.
Hmm, some think they're too strong. I think they're okay, but you have to work at them. No, don't get combat for your spellcasters if you really don't want it. Fact is, you don't need it if they carry troops with them at all times. Well, unless you fight devils...
I always get basic combat when I can buy it, just for the slight boost in defense, but my heroes are almost always spellcasters. It's only when they've hit level 15+ that I start adding in some non-combat skills, and by then they should have enough troops to keep them protected.
The only thing that I don't like about heroes is that, compared to spellcasting creatures, they feel very weak. With a sizable stack of genies, no spellcasting hero can come close to damage potential without being very high level...
____________
|
|
Jenova
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2002 06:20 AM |
|
Edited By: Jenova on 16 Apr 2002
|
Quote:
Get the combat skill!!! It is the only skill that strengtens heroes for a nonmagical fight!! My level 20 heroes are real strong.
Well actually, I like to play Magic heroes, so I don't get combat. It kinda conflicts with the caster profession. If I'm going to spend my hero's turns casting powerful spells, would it make sense to get some combat skills? I usually get 2 magics, nobility, scouting, and tactics. The reason I don't get combat is because the effects are for the hero only, which is a waste and I'd rather be using my hero casting spells.
Quote:
So, you are annoyed that your archers always do 1/2 damage or sometimes 1/4? Well, For your knowing it WAS the SAME way in H3, only there it didn`t show how much the damage was reduced.
Yes, I know. But it wasn't as bad. There was no front or back row, so they didn't have meat shields blocking them from being targeted. To my knowledge, obstacles like rocks didn't cause broken arrows either. And the Archery skill nullified 1/2 damage penalties.
Quote:
What`s bad with archers at the back? They are weak in melee and thus are protected by your strong creatures.
Archers at the back pretty much assures they will only be doing 1/2 or 1/4 damage. Not much point if your damage is so severely penalized. My "strong" creatures also tend to be out on the other side of the field kicking some enemy butt, so the "protection" they provide my archers is moot.
|
|
UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
|
posted April 16, 2002 09:12 AM |
|
|
Moderator's hat off for this one
Two words, Jenova:
Sniper's Crossbow
This little toy (if you can find it) makes shooter armies even more nasty (and the Preserve can develop a pretty dern nasty shooter army)
|
|
Helias_GR
Hired Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2002 09:27 AM |
|
|
And another two.
Mass Precision...
____________
Helias_GR
"My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right."
|
|
brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
|
|
posted April 16, 2002 11:49 AM |
|
|
I dunno... I think shooters are quite powerful enough. My halfling + titan combo is great. By the time I have a good number of titans, my halflings are in the hundreds. Good for fighting level 4's. I don't care what you say, that 50% bonus is quite noticable to me.
Anyway, I think if you took out the line-of-sight rule, and made archers be able to shoot through obstacles with no penalty, they'd have to make all the archers do 1/2 their current damage, otherwise they'd be way too strong!
Jenova: If your melee troops never stick around to protect your archers, then why not position your archers in front to begin with?
____________
|
|
DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
|
|
posted April 16, 2002 11:57 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Hmm, some think they're too strong. I think they're okay, but you have to work at them. No, don't get combat for your spellcasters if you really don't want it. Fact is, you don't need it if they carry troops with them at all times. Well, unless you fight devils...
I always get basic combat when I can buy it, just for the slight boost in defense, but my heroes are almost always spellcasters. It's only when they've hit level 15+ that I start adding in some non-combat skills, and by then they should have enough troops to keep them protected.
The only thing that I don't like about heroes is that, compared to spellcasting creatures, they feel very weak. With a sizable stack of genies, no spellcasting hero can come close to damage potential without being very high level...
I don't get it. First you say that I don't have to get the combat skill. Then you say you always get the combat skill (even with your magic heroes), and that only after you've reached level 15, you dare develop anything but the combat skills...
And to those of you (not specifically you, Brody, I don't remember who said it) who say that I should just keep my heroes behind allied stacks; that may take off the attack from one or two stacks, but when there are three or more, someone always gets a shot in.
____________
There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
|
|
Flashman
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2002 12:39 PM |
|
|
I don't really get this problem, vs. the AI Combat is nothing but a wasted skill slot IMO.
The AI hardly ever attacks my hero but I also make damn sure that potential hero life threatening stacks are nerfed one way or the other.
With potions of Immortality around your heroes should never ever die unless you're grossly out gunned.
However, I believe that GM Combat and GM magic Resistance will be a must in PvP games or you'll die to the first Spell/Ranged attack/Fast walker that hits the hero and other players unlike the AI know how to prioritize their targets~
/Flash
____________
|
|
Jenova
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 16, 2002 01:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Jenova: If your melee troops never stick around to protect your archers, then why not position your archers in front to begin with?
I tried that.. but then they just block the bigger units behind them, and the ones that can get past them will take even longer to reach the end of the battlefield (most units can't walk very far if you don't have Tactics). The Dragon Golem is one that easily gets blocked. If Archery could be passed onto the other units (just the removal of the penalty), I would be jumping for joy at this game.
Unka, what does that Sniper's Crossbow do exactly? I wish the map editor would tell these things.
|
| |
|
|
