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| Thread: Does obstacles have any use other than less than decorations |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 09:35 AM |
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Does obstacles have any use other than less than decorations
In my games I practically had no use for the obstacles( not including moat mines or castle doors)
They are less than obstacles and merely take a few spots away.
I only heard of someone who had a spot to protect harpyhags before.
So is this true for you all too
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 11:16 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 11:22, 08 Oct 2023.
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Larger obstacles can be quite important. As long as you have the speed advantage, you can often beat a neutral army that is split in multiple stacks without losses using hit and run tactics. I tend to ignore slow units like golems or dwarves, so I use this a lot.
You can also make parts of the opposing forces run back and forth by opening and closing a narrow passage (as long as they cannot reach you in only one turn).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 08, 2023 11:18 AM |
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There is a tool displaying obstacles pattern for each map hex. Some mapmakers use it for creating puzzle battles, like the harpy you mentioned.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 04:51 PM |
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thecastrated said:
In my games I practically had no use for the obstacles( not including moat mines or castle doors)
To be honest, this sounds a bit weird to me; I think you're not just realizing how much you're using the obstacles to your advantage, or whereas the game is using them against you. For example, speed 7 on a creature is required to cross the battlefield in two turns, but if there are even only a tiny obstacle on the way, the trip suddenly takes one turn longer.
Design-wise, I think the obstacles have the biggest impact to battles when it comes to random factors, at least in the early game. When the game goes on, the value of obstacles is slightly less, due creatures having more speed and abilities such as flying are more common.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 05:07 PM |
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It took me forever to find these two but I knew I had seen them.
Richard_Chen - Small tricks VS AI
Trick 2
Trick 3
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 05:45 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 17:56, 08 Oct 2023.
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Obstacles can play a great role in outspeeding neutrals when you have only a slight advantage. Also, they are great when fighting against dragons, who don't want to damage allies with their breath and thus attacking your unit only once in a round. I won impossible battles vs Azure Dragon just because of rightly placed obstacles.
Just to demonstate (it's not a final setup, as I found another, more viable, but I haven't a screenshot of it) -
This my latest fight vs Azures -
Almost a speed run, wanted to finish this map in a month, but some things didn't align well 
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 06:07 PM |
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Is the battle obstacles exactly the same for a particular spot on the map? Surprisingly I played so long still do not know the answer
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 06:09 PM |
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Yes, there is even programs that can show you exact placement of obstacles for any map cell. Also, I think, the SoD_SP plugin can show it.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 06:11 PM |
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That picture is perfect, I was trying to find a fight to exemplify that but fortunately you already found it, thank you.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 10:37 PM |
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they will attack only once in a round? You mean they wont attack from the diagonally adjacent hex against both elementals and a final time for the right elemental ?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 10:47 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 22:50, 08 Oct 2023.
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No, Earth Elementals there are just a precaution. I fought this battle with Mass Slow and Blind, but, eventually, understood, that I lacked mana to fight Azures. Actually, you don't need elementals at all, if you have Resurrection. You will be attacked only by one stack of Rust Dragons, because others will be afraid of hitting an ally behind Titans. That long 4x1 obstacle there prevents other Rust Dragons from attacking diagonally.
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Thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 11:37 PM |
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Why can’t a dragon attack from the first row fourth hex from the right and another attack second row fourth hex from the right? I recall many times the dragons can attack and be side by side together just as the top two on the top left corner shows
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2023 11:53 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 23:55, 08 Oct 2023.
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If you speak about the right elementals, Rust Dragons do exactly that, but the whole point is to prevent them from attacking Titans. Now, eliminate elementals, and Rust Dragons will be attacking Titans once in a round. It's way better than when Titans stand in the upper left corner, because in this scenario you will need a lot of mana, so you have to save it when possible.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 12:25 AM |
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Now that you admit you are wrong the left elemental will be attacked twice too correct? First attack via second row ninth hex last attack the hex left of the elemental. So four hits rather than one as you said correct?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 01:07 AM |
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You don't care about elementals, right? They are just mana points. You care about your Titans who should survive. And Titans are attacked only by one stack of Rusties. I wrote already that that config took much mana, so I replayed a battle only with Titans, not summoning elementals. Otherwise, I would have been empty before the battle with Azures.
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 04:18 AM |
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Yup we do not care about elementals. However the main point in this thread is not about sacrificing elementals but rather about terrain therefore the concern is about whether each elemental get hit once or otherwise
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 05:46 AM |
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Are you intentionally trying to misunderstend? 
Because of the obstacle the Titans will only be hit once per turn, even without the elementals. In the screenshot, there are also two elementals to completely block out the dragons, which is inconsequential for the topic.
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MarkMasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted October 09, 2023 09:12 AM |
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I recall having a battle once where in the middle of the combat map was an open space surrounded by obstacles. I teleported a shooter there which won me the fight.
If only the AI knew how to use remove obstacle
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted October 09, 2023 09:14 AM |
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Ah I get it now! The Axures attacks TITANS once per round! Somehow my mind goes to attacks once per round! He is correct.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 09, 2023 11:03 AM |
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Edited by Ghost at 11:11, 09 Oct 2023.
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MarkMasters said:
If only the AI knew how to use remove obstacle
In the RoE AI casts Remove Obstacle or Berserk to Efreets look like a drunk.. But my friend (computer) is also dead.. Much better friend AI casted Frost Ring to empty hex, because aped me.. And then expansion, AI never casted..
Ok I hate obstacles, esp. in the rough, because my Ancient Behemoths are 4 number aka middle/central, but obstacle prevented Ancient Behemoths to move something, when 3 and 5 creatures are slow, and AI attacked me. I stopped using to 4 number, except Titans aren't a problem.. What/why obstacle closed to Ancient Behemoths.. Sorrow-assed! Not only you use strategy but snow to you too.. Depend on position.. Now you know that your native terrain and creature can get a snow obstacle.. So you can't do over strategy.. And then you must invent to obstacle for a new level.. Not only Harpies or Titans
Obstacles? Think about battlefield can meet in quicksand, rocks, etc What Ukraine - Russia.. Soon swamp, etc are the same event in HoMM..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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