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| Thread: Guild of Debaters |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted September 09, 2004 09:44 PM |
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Quote:
The one who argues their side the best wins the deebate, remember. Not the one who you think is particularly correct.
Neither of them are correct. 
So therefore there is nothing to worry about. So then the debate will be based purely on who is better at bull****ting, I mean making valid logical arguement.
Quote:
Is there any way of removing those votes or can we count them as non-valid on the basis that they haven't read the rules of the debate beforehand?
Why not simply hold a vote in a separate thread afterwards?
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Go Red Sox!
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted September 10, 2004 12:20 AM |
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I dont think winning the debate is important here. I think people can vote publicly after the end of the debate in the same thread, and that way we'll know where the votes "that count" go.
Jury would be too undemocratic imo.
Oh, and RSF, I cant discuss the topic with you until this thing ends, but for a start you can refer to Woock's point in Gay thread. 
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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7h3Ultim4t3G...
Hired Hero
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posted September 10, 2004 03:11 PM |
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The Voting thing sucks. Some discussions aren't about whos right or whos wrong. You're destroying the whole debation part.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted September 11, 2004 01:57 AM |
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The point of the debatethread isnt about being right or wrong. Its about convincing other people that your ideas and reasoning is better
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted September 11, 2004 02:06 AM |
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Both of you are wrong.
"I think we have some brilliant minds here that can debate, and this would be an opportunity for people to rate them and comment, and most importantly learn how to lead a meaningful discussion." - copied from the first post, for which after a long time I conclude, are the least read posts in all threads.
For the people debating, the discussion and reasoning skills gained through that are goal by itself and completely self-sufficient. All the other elements (voting, topics, research) are in the service of this objective.
For the people following the debate, the same applies, plus the knowledge gained through listening and reasoning in their own head.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted September 11, 2004 02:09 AM |
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I read your post, I just don't necessarily agree that the people will or should vote on that basis that's all.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted September 11, 2004 02:29 AM |
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for once i agree with mr research...
It make no sense whatsoever in first saying that you debate to learn yourself how to be in a meaningful discussion and then say that you get rated for it.
Thats about as non pedagogical you can get.
Because lets say person P gets in a debate and is generally happy with his performance. Then he sees the voting and he got 10% of the votes.
How encouraging would that be?
You may wanna launch a debate thread, but to set hypocrite standards in it and then get angry with people for not reading em is wrong.
Its either way, you get competetive debates with voting results and when you enter the debate you know its a competition.
OR
You have a none voting one and is just trying to lead and participate in a meaningful debate.
Trying to mix em doesnt work.
Dont get angry with the people when they get lost if your guidance of em sucks.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted September 11, 2004 02:48 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 10 Sep 2004
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Are you suggesting that winning a debate means that the winner was really better than the other?
I dont think so. Peacemakers vote couldnt possibly be qualitatively equated with nOOb2000's vote, for example. What good would a competitative debate be, if the competition is unfair in the first place. Therefore voting doesnt mean a thing, at least for me. It's only there for some amusement for the masses.
If anyone does however place value on the voting results then they are free to do so. In these debates I place value on the debating and reasoning skills. But thats my opinion. I dont know. What do you place value on?
Also competitiveness is important, but not with the n00bs as the objective judge for it. Thats the job for members comments after the debate.
I dont see how my opinions change anything. There's a debate and people vote for the winner. Its all we should know.
I was marely emphasizing the fact that the vote shouldnt be overrated and that some other things are indeed more important than winning. And also about the other right/wrong dilemma; you can never prove a debatable topic right or wrong, nor you can convince your opponents go your way if they had already heard what you heard about the topic.
What did you think; that if I needed confirmation for my superiorness, I would start a debate and let people vote me?! Jeez...
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted September 14, 2004 03:10 AM |
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What do you guys think about the posting time?
Are 48 hours too short time between two posts? Asmodean clearly took more than that. And while I have no trouble waiting and adjasting to people's obligations, I notice that the debate loses dynamics somehow. and hence the time limit from the beginning.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted September 14, 2004 03:03 PM |
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Depends on the person I would say. I would consider it unlikely that I would be able to reply every other day due to other comittments. Some people might be able to though. It's best left between the two debating the topic to choose I guess.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted December 12, 2004 04:06 PM |
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BUMP..
Lets not let this die.
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 12, 2004 06:12 PM |
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So True, So True
Quote:
I appreciate that you mean well Consis, but you never quite get it right.
You seem to be willing to forgive me for my short-comings. I am indeed what you say I am. Thankyou for being patient with me as often as you have been. This is what makes you a good person holding understanding and wisdom that am quite envious of.
You know I haven't had quite the quality of education you seem to have had. Perhaps one day, by learning from you, I shall get it wholly right. Until then I shall remain willingly open to your criticism(except on the matter of bible debates...but you already knew that ;P).
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted December 13, 2004 01:32 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 12 Dec 2004
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I didnt imagine anyone would be willing, because so few took interest in the first debate. But I'll give you infidels a second chance.
Here're the topics left from the last time:
 Human embryon cloning should be banned.
Terrorism is never justified.
China will be the cause for WW3. (consis mentioned his wish to debate this once.)
The nation-state system is the most efficient one.
Organized religion should be banned.
Fiderich Nietzsche was evil philosopher.
Science is more important than Art.
Dingo is better spammer than Lord Woock.
America is better than Europe.
Swearing on HC should always be penalized.
Some more, inspired from recent events:
Compromise between groups is always a must.
QPs should not exist on HC (or the other side)
Naturally, all proposal topics are edible. And newer members who want to debate are welcomed to join too.
Just want to mention that the homosexuality debate between me and asmodean could use some improvement in terms of structure (and not to mention - TIME), so its not exactly the perfect role model for future debates. I'll take care for organizing the general guidelines for debate which are spread out over this topic and put them in the first post, but some time later. First we need to find a debate pair.
So, any candidates for debate?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 13, 2004 01:35 AM |
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hmm.. why is a post in this thread made my be edited and why isnt there any explaination here or in the post?
i dont like getting edited
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 13, 2004 01:57 AM |
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I have a few I’d be willing to do, but not for another month or so. I just don’t have the time yet.
Liberal Bias in the US Media
“Racism” is Unfair
ACLU is Inconsistent
@ Stiven
I looked through this whole thread and the only one of your posts that was edited, was edited by you. Or did I miss one?
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 13, 2004 04:32 AM |
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Wolfman,
On this page.....Your name is in the edited box for one of his posts.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 13, 2004 04:55 AM |
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How did I miss that? I see it now, can't remember why...
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted December 13, 2004 07:20 AM |
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I wouldn't mind going for this one:
Dingo is a better spammer than Lord Woock.
And:
Homer Simpson is FUNNY!
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted December 13, 2004 08:33 AM |
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Aside from time, the first debate experiment had some other issues as well. Non-debators posted in the designated debate thread and were resentful when their posts were moved elsewhere. Also, some mail-in votes arrived before the debates were concluded. Therefore, my suggestions for improving the next debate:
1) Allow the peanut gallery to comment. These topics get heated and everyone wants to pipe up, regardless of posted rules. To accomodate this, perhaps designated debators could use some special header or graphic to signal that they are the "official" debators of that particular thread. This would be for the purposes of....
2) Voting. A vote should not be even opened until the debate is finished. And I do question the use of the HC poll function; it is easily manipulated by people with multiple accounts and cannot be reset. Short post voting, ala the Pixel Artist Guild, would be non-confidential but more reliable.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 14, 2004 12:31 AM |
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Would the official debators have to acknowledge the "Peanut Gallery"? I think that may ruin the structure of the whole thing.
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