|
| Thread: Should Heroes V have Night and Day in the game? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Katharyne
Tavern Dweller
|
posted February 10, 2003 03:53 PM |
|
|
|
Day and Night as a concept imo doesn't work because its turn based, your army would be sleeping for the same number of days as you have opponents or allies, when you're not taking your turn, which just seems odd to me. Seasons I can kind of get with except that it would probably have to be a bit random which point in the year you started at, otherwise you'd rarely get to a change of season with most maps, so it would always be whatever the default starting season was.
|
|
leviathan
Tavern Dweller
from the Forsaken Times
|
|
posted March 04, 2004 02:28 AM |
|
|
personally, I like the idea of day/night. it would be interesting to see the differences in castles and terrain between day and night, and the advantages and disadvantages given to some units seem like they would make the game even more fun!
hm...maybe there should be an entire town that only traveled at night, like the necropolis? because I agree with whoever said this (I can't remember) that vampires, for one, don't travel during the day because sunlight would kill them. or maybe just some specific creatures that benefit from nighttime? like...Vampires get a %35 bonus at night, and devils...well, most people seemed to believe that most satanic rituals and such took place at night, so maybe the devils would be stronger?
and it would be kind of eerie and really cool to see things like thunderbirds and storm elementals at night. I have to agree, things that glow (like efreeti and phoenixes) would look really cool at night. ^.^
so I am definitely in favor of the day/night thing.
____________
Don't tease the Puppies of Hell. For they have very large friends with bad breath.
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted March 06, 2004 06:23 PM |
|
|
OK, this is a serious idea, so I’ll try to cover all aspects of this day-night issue.
First of all, I can see everybody agrees that day-night changes would be cool. My point too, but just cool, it would (and should) not add to the gameplay in a substantional way. It would be a great graphic improvement. Just imagine, torches, fireplaces, moon and stars. The game would get a whole new great ambient.
Now, let’s see the solutions so far proposed.
The “1 turn day - 1 turn night” concept with a 14-turn-long week, is no good. Firstly, because armies won’t get time to camp/sleep, which might ruin some stories, and is just not interesting. Plus, night/day creatures will still be forced to move in “unnatural” surroundings.
The second proposal was about having a separate “night terrain”. No good again, because heroes would be able to enter night and day several times during one turn.
The best optional solution, I believe, would be for the player to choose in the beginning of the game whether to play by day or night. In addition, races would have certain small benefits, if they have their turn during their natural day or night surrounding.
The benefits I’m talking about should not be big, because that might imbalance the game, but they can be enough persuasive to make, e.g. a Necro player choose to play by night instead of by day. I’m talking about +/- Morale, +/- 1 movement/speed or (and) +/- 1 Attack/Defense. The hero radius should also be altered.
There are two options, either to make a whole town/race, a night/day town, or assign a particular preference for each creature separately. I think, the first option is better (and in most cases, most logical) with rarely exceptions of opposite creatures within a town. (eg. Golem-has no preference, in a “day town”).
I forgot to mention, but you can see from the previous example, that there would also be neutral races (eg. Barbarians) that won’t get any benefits/drawbacks no matter when they fight/travel.
One might say, that that will be unbalancing, because day/night creatures get bonuses, while neutrals don’t. But don’t forget that if day/night races are attacked during their sleep (night/day), they will also have minor drawbacks for their stats, maybe even bigger than the benefits, in order to compensate for using those benefits most of the time.
This will certainly cause players to attack more often opposite races, rather than wait to be attacked. (this also increases the hatred in a way)
This system also, causes players to restrain form recruiting opposite “day-night” creatures from conquered towns, which is also a way to somewhat prevent an army of light have vampires or medusas in ranks, as many fans were looking for ways to stop this (beside the Morale system). This doesn’t prevent that practice, but certainly makes it less desirable.
Also, another great benefit from this sytem, will be that it will make campaigns and stories more interesting and exciting. You can play a campaign, for instance, where stealth tactics is used, in order to surprise your opponent (eg, the Gelu guerilla scenario in AB).
Now, the major contra argument and the reason that probably will prevent this idea from becoming true: It might take the developers more time and effort.
But, personally, I don’t think it’s that hard. Every adventure map building should have a night variance of itself (with torches and light from windows) and the town view also has to be corrected. But it won’t be a job that will be done from scratch, since you have the day look of the building, and just change the lightness effect with a computer program.
I hope this idea comes true, since it will be REALLY REALLY COOL to see this novelty in heroes, as we all agreed.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
DartHRevaN
Tavern Dweller
|
posted March 08, 2004 04:43 PM |
|
|
It should be cool
I think it should be very cool and wonderfull just think about it your walking on your turns and the time is runing in real time day night and i think that also good woud be virtual weather sistem sun, rain, snow and other things.
I strongly suggest this because this will make game funner and more ineresting.
|
|
Polaris
Promising
Known Hero
|
|
posted March 16, 2004 07:23 AM |
|
|
Enhanced realism does not always equate to enhanced fun.
As I've been reading this topic, I've been trying to figure out why I don't like the idea. So far the only reason I've come up with is that day/night does not seem to work very well in a turn based game like this. That's not really the reason I'm against it though, because that is a structural problem and not a gameplay problem. So basically, I'm against it I just don't know why.
Perhaps it's because the only logical way to do this is with the alternating day/night turns, and that introduces either turns which would normally be skipped or unnecessary logical fallacies.
____________
|
|
leviathan
Tavern Dweller
from the Forsaken Times
|
|
posted March 17, 2004 09:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
OK, this is a serious idea, so I’ll try to cover all aspects of this day-night issue.
First of all, I can see everybody agrees that day-night changes would be cool. My point too, but just cool, it would (and should) not add to the gameplay in a substantional way. It would be a great graphic improvement. Just imagine, torches, fireplaces, moon and stars. The game would get a whole new great ambient.
Now, let’s see the solutions so far proposed.
The “1 turn day - 1 turn night” concept with a 14-turn-long week, is no good. Firstly, because armies won’t get time to camp/sleep, which might ruin some stories, and is just not interesting. Plus, night/day creatures will still be forced to move in “unnatural” surroundings.
The second proposal was about having a separate “night terrain”. No good again, because heroes would be able to enter night and day several times during one turn.
The best optional solution, I believe, would be for the player to choose in the beginning of the game whether to play by day or night. In addition, races would have certain small benefits, if they have their turn during their natural day or night surrounding.
The benefits I’m talking about should not be big, because that might imbalance the game, but they can be enough persuasive to make, e.g. a Necro player choose to play by night instead of by day. I’m talking about +/- Morale, +/- 1 movement/speed or (and) +/- 1 Attack/Defense. The hero radius should also be altered.
There are two options, either to make a whole town/race, a night/day town, or assign a particular preference for each creature separately. I think, the first option is better (and in most cases, most logical) with rarely exceptions of opposite creatures within a town. (eg. Golem-has no preference, in a “day town”).
I forgot to mention, but you can see from the previous example, that there would also be neutral races (eg. Barbarians) that won’t get any benefits/drawbacks no matter when they fight/travel.
One might say, that that will be unbalancing, because day/night creatures get bonuses, while neutrals don’t. But don’t forget that if day/night races are attacked during their sleep (night/day), they will also have minor drawbacks for their stats, maybe even bigger than the benefits, in order to compensate for using those benefits most of the time.
This will certainly cause players to attack more often opposite races, rather than wait to be attacked. (this also increases the hatred in a way)
This system also, causes players to restrain form recruiting opposite “day-night” creatures from conquered towns, which is also a way to somewhat prevent an army of light have vampires or medusas in ranks, as many fans were looking for ways to stop this (beside the Morale system). This doesn’t prevent that practice, but certainly makes it less desirable.
Also, another great benefit from this sytem, will be that it will make campaigns and stories more interesting and exciting. You can play a campaign, for instance, where stealth tactics is used, in order to surprise your opponent (eg, the Gelu guerilla scenario in AB).
Now, the major contra argument and the reason that probably will prevent this idea from becoming true: It might take the developers more time and effort.
But, personally, I don’t think it’s that hard. Every adventure map building should have a night variance of itself (with torches and light from windows) and the town view also has to be corrected. But it won’t be a job that will be done from scratch, since you have the day look of the building, and just change the lightness effect with a computer program.
I hope this idea comes true, since it will be REALLY REALLY COOL to see this novelty in heroes, as we all agreed.
I have to agree that the 14-turn week would NOT be a good idea, for the same reason that a lot of people have: units would get no time to sleep. but I REALLY like your ideas, because they make sense. the idea of towns based primarily on night and day is cool, and, hm...maybe there should be two night towns, two day towns, and two neutral towns? like (if they follow the same basic rules as in Heroes IV), Death and Chaos could be night, Life and Nature could be day, and Might and Order could be neutral?
however, I don't really like the idea of night-terrain for the same reason you do. switching between night and day whenver you choose doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
and I agree as well. if there ARE benefits, they should be small ones. and, for example, if death (with vampires) were to be attacked at night, they wouldn't lose TOO much, just very small things. it just makes more sense, to me.
____________
Don't tease the Puppies of Hell. For they have very large friends with bad breath.
|
|
Maslo
Adventuring Hero
Lord of Vampires
|
|
posted February 20, 2006 10:05 PM |
|
|
Such stupid ideas may be thought only by h4 fans. There is night but we don't see it! when you end your turn there is night. armies must sleep to regenerate their strenght.
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 21, 2006 08:03 PM |
|
|
I'd also say no night. It just doesn't seem to fit with a turn-based game, and 14 turns a week is a no too. I suppose it might be possible to choose whether to act at day or night - at present I can think of no reason why this wouldn't work. There are 14 turns per week, but you only have 7, either the nights or the days. You sleep during the other periods. Small benefits would come your way depending on what faction you were etc...
____________
|
|
Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 21, 2006 08:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Such stupid ideas may be thought only by h4 fans. There is night but we don't see it! when you end your turn there is night. armies must sleep to regenerate their strenght.
Watch your tone, you're walking on a thin line with such kind of statements. Read this for more eplanation on how a proper discussion should be held.
____________
|
|
Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 24, 2006 02:29 AM |
|
|
interesting idea but armies do need to sleep and regenerate and stuff, and night creatures and day creatures would be wierd imo.. I think it HoMM should be left as is...day is for action and night is for regerationand sleep
____________
|
|
katarraktis
Hired Hero
A Greek semi-god
|
posted February 27, 2006 10:22 AM |
|
|
i thought it could be up to each player if he wants to move during night time also.he could cover some distance but his troops would be so tired that their stats would be lowered.he has the option to pass several nights without resting but at the end the morale of his troops will fall,their spped will drastically drop,they would be an easier target to diplomancy and charm(if there is anything like this in heores v)and eventually his troops (starting from the weaker ones) will die.
if the hero spends too many nights without resting he has to go back to town to rest his troops for one day or two before he continues...
what do you think?
____________
it is not worthy to get sad about problems that can be solved and about problems that cannot.
|
|
Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 27, 2006 06:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
i thought it could be up to each player if he wants to move during night time also.he could cover some distance but his troops would be so tired that their stats would be lowered.he has the option to pass several nights without resting but at the end the morale of his troops will fall,their spped will drastically drop,they would be an easier target to diplomancy and charm(if there is anything like this in heores v)and eventually his troops (starting from the weaker ones) will die.
if the hero spends too many nights without resting he has to go back to town to rest his troops for one day or two before he continues...
what do you think?
that's a good thought but for the creatures to rest when they are dieing..does the hero have to go bk to the town:S I think it'd be better just to have an option of setting up a camp and maybe have an ability that u can learn to ressaruct the creatures that have fallen from going on without ne sleep for a lot of nights
____________
|
|
ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
|
|
posted March 17, 2006 11:30 AM |
|
|
I think that adding day \ night will only make an already complicated game more complicated, and that is not good.
If you make day \ night you will have twice the turns in one week, and that makes it hard to generate creatures weekly. You'll then have to make a midd week creature growth. It will also throw the factions out of balance because some will benifit from the night and some won't.
Besides, you don't expect armies to have full movement points at both day and night, do you? they are living (most of them...) and need rest and sleep. The night can be usefull for mechanical creatures and for the undead, but this screws the balance again. Other than that, the night can be used like the "ghost mode", but in general it is not needed cause' the game is good as it is.
____________
The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
|
|
william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
|
|
posted March 17, 2006 11:36 AM |
|
|
Night would make the game harder/complicated, and nobody would really want that.
I just want asimple game.
|
|
Stranger
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted March 17, 2006 09:54 PM |
|
|
Day and Night
I would want Day and Night in the game . It would giv it some realism bit more . But you just can´t have it all .
____________
|
|
william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
|
|
posted March 18, 2006 12:21 AM |
|
|
|
Yeah, it would add some realism but it would complicate things and nobody wants that.
|
|
yubq
Hired Hero
rosesmasher
|
|
posted July 09, 2006 01:31 PM |
|
|
that's would be gorgeous!and more near to realiality.
heroes can launch nightstike. a midnight battle shall be more exciting.
but,it is certain to be more timetaking.
|
|
kevyip
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted July 15, 2006 05:17 PM |
|
|
Vampires and sunlight
Quote:
that vampires, for one, don't travel during the day because sunlight would kill them.
In early vampire fiction, like Bram Stoker's Dracula, vampires could walk in the sunlight unharmed. It was only when modern vampire fiction came along in the last 50 years or so, that the idea of sunlight killing vampires was introduced.
|
|
Gulshog
Tavern Dweller
Storyteller
|
|
posted July 15, 2006 05:39 PM |
|
|
Day and Night are in the game, it's just inferred. Daytime is when you build, recruit, and adventure around the game map. Nighttime is when you, the residents of your cities, and your creatures sleep. They don't need to show the night, because it's when nothing is happening.
____________
The Mordigoer Tablets: A new campaign for HOMM5(Needed: Map Editor and Campaign Editor)
|
|
jlewlotr
Hired Hero
|
posted July 16, 2006 11:18 PM |
|
|
|
I would personally like to see Day/Night just for the visuals. I could see how it would complicate the game though. What if instead of having day and night, they just had a Week of Darkness? Then you could still have night once in a while, you could have small bonuses attached to it, and it wouldn't complicate things by having 14 turn weeks.
|
| |
|
|
