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| Thread: Science Vs. Religion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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HeyYou
Known Hero
and beloved food provider.
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posted October 17, 2002 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
Religion wins, because science is just a modern religion based on axioms that can´t be proves and thus science fails as what it tries to be.
. . . he typed on his PC and transmitted via the Internet, both of which exist thanks to principles developed through scientific inquiry, research, testing, and verification.
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I really love it when I'm on an Internet bulletin board and someone says something like, "Science is fake/unproven, and God really does exist, despite my complete lack of supporting evidence to that effect."
Please point out the chapter and verse, in whichever holy text you choose, that states explicitly that God built the Internet.
Then you can tell me science is fake/unproven.
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Tortoise
Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
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posted October 17, 2002 07:34 PM |
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well, speaking of god and heightened beings... Everybody take a look at this site, its really incitefull, and has alot to do with omniscience and god and stuff...
http://www.greatdreams.com/indigo.htm
My brother gave me this link insisting that we're these kind of kids. (He thinks we're smarter than the average bear)
Anyways, i think this debate has gone on long enough, neither side of the story can be proved or disproved, this will go on for eternity. (just like god, tee hee hee!)
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All living things have a history. The history of the Tortoise is long and rich.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 17, 2002 07:59 PM |
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Religion & Science has nothing in common sorry.
Science is real
Religion is a belief? it can be real or contradictions?
Give me one example how science & Religion is related?
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Dreaming of a Better World
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 17, 2002 09:48 PM |
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Stiven, it's true I don't know much about quantom mechanics as a grade 11 student, so I can't argue about it. I think I did hear what I said about observation, though. About the time travel thingie, I was not even talking about quantom there - just physics (sorry if it was confusing), and once again i'm not 100% sure about it. And the whole thing about us being energy, isn't that also a scientific idea that can be applied to religion: nothing is real, what defines us is the soul and other supernatural ideas from religion.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 17, 2002 11:30 PM |
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The key difference between scientific knowledge and religous knowledge isn't necessarily in the conclusions reached (although those are generally different between science and religion) but in the method used to obtain the knowledge. It's pretty much two philosophies used to decide how you "know" something.
Depending on the religion, religious knowledge can be based on the acceptance that something is God's word and is therefore by definition true or through insight gained through meditation but generally can probably be termed "revealed knowledge" -- I guess the best way to say it would be you know it in your heart or know it in your bones.
The scientific method is based on making observations (and before anybody jumps on the "well how do you know what you see is real?" bandwagon, you don't. That's just all you have to go on, so that's what you use.), and then creating a model that explains those observations. The key to the model should be that it makes new predictions that can be tested. You continue to test those predictions to find out if your model holds up. If not, you refine the model. It's an iterative process. People think that scientists spend their time trying to "prove" things. That's not true. We spend most of our time trying to disprove our own models.
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted October 18, 2002 12:01 AM |
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Bjorn is absolutely right. Science _is_ a religion. It just happens to be the dominant one in our age (although its power as a religion is waning). Want an argument? Notice how several preople refer to science as "truth." Well, in the West in the Middle Ages christianity was not a religion. It was never referred to in that way. It was "truth," and it was seldom called into question except by highly educated scholars. In the Middle Ages when someone got ill (that's where you find your true religion--issues of life and death) the priest would be called immediately to pray for the sick and to "minister" to him. Notice that christianity still "owns" this word, but it used to mean "heal." Now, when we get sick, we go see the scientist--the doctor, because we "believe" he/she can make us better. Science is a religion, but it's dominant now because it seems to answer more important questions for many of us. Problem is, science answers few important questions. I have less faith in doctors, for example, than my grandmother did. As a religion science is failing us, and something new is going to replace it (or, at least, so argues Nietzsche). That, btw, is what he meant when he said "God is dead." He meant that science has become the dominant religion of the West. We killed God, he says, when we chose to believe in science instead.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted October 18, 2002 03:29 AM |
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what do u mean the means justify the ends?
Science say it is so therefore it is so (they know the way they came up with it most of the ignorant dont care to know)
Religion say it is so therefore it is so (GOD knows the way he came up with it and most of the ignorant dont care how)
My belief is NOT atheism tho it may seem that way. I say both ways are truly not for this century. Science has screwed the world over a trifeling amount and Religion will do the same over beliefs.
Science has progressed the world to oblivion and Religion has regressed it to oblivion. Take your pick both are just as bad as the other. Both are just the same thing at different stand points.
nuts to the whole process 
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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Aculias
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posted October 18, 2002 03:33 AM |
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Science is perfect.
Religion can be but how do we know for sure?
People are not perfect
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Dreaming of a Better World
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 18, 2002 03:42 AM |
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Quote:
what do u mean the means justify the ends?
If this was directed at me I meant that science is the process not the conclusions.
Quote:
Science has screwed the world over a trifeling amount
Could you explain this statement?
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Science has progressed the world to oblivion and Religion has regressed it to oblivion.
And this one.
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted October 18, 2002 03:54 AM |
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okay some explanations....
Sciene has progressed the world to oblivion simply implies this. Take our technological know how okay? Now we can play with pretty little buttons that will make the world dissappear in a few minutes or maybe not the world but we can now invent a killer virus introduce it to the atmosphere and kill all life but atleast the world is intact 
Religion has regressed us to oblivion simply by clouding our better judgement into things (which will also lead to very bad things) Religion back in the past has already been known to wipe out an entire culture and civilization. I am NOT talking christianity I am talking a broad perspective known as RELIGION.
The world as I see it (i love interpretations) is TOTALLY uneffective as a whole. Now some will say i live in never never land and the pink elephants run rampant. I truly believe humanity can evolve past Science and Religion.
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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Snogard
Known Hero
customised
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posted October 18, 2002 04:16 AM |
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Quote:
this topic
and this topic
both talked about this. No reason not to talk about it again, but assume I reposted all my posts in these two threads here.
Thanks bort, didn't realise there are such interesting discussions before...
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Seize The Day.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2002 06:29 AM |
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“Descartes claimed that there was no god and everything could be explained by math.”
Descartes “I think therefore I am” was one of his great proofs that led him to believe there is a God.
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“Religion on the other hand has by and large just but mysteries down to god or the devil and not always tried to explain them.”
I would think the literally millions of books in Theology (the study of God) would kind of dispute that sentiment
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“Isaac Newton is already mentioned; he was a scientist who actually had an immovable belief in God and therefore was never a threat to religion. So science and religion can get along. In fact, many modern scientists have an other belief than atheïsm. I disagree with the statement that attempts to combine both science and religion in the past, have failed. Actually, Descartes deeply believed in God. In fact, the existence of a God was as natural for him as the statement: 'I think, therefore I am'. Other great philosophers such as Spinoza, Kant, Berkeley, Hume, Socrates, Plato and Aristoteles also didn't exclude science, nor religion. And personally I think that religion can never be falsified by science.”
Precisely
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“Science creates models that give definite predictions which can be tested. If the prediction is wrong, the model is wrong and a new model is developed based on the evidence available. The difference between science and religion is that science provides a method of testing the "facts" that it puts forth (ie - don't believe in gravity? Well, when you drop something [assuming you're on the earth's surface] and it doesn't fall, we'll talk.)”
Technically speaking that is correct. But what one must understand is that science is rarely pure in popular society. For one, we have blinders of our current paradigms. Second much of science has become politicized that it often loses its roots (global warming theories, etc). Third, some groups, say atheists or agnostics, have basically formed a religious devotion and world view to science (Theory of evolution, etc.) given their inherent distaste for traditional religion. So much of what we have in society is a very distorted science due to those 3 things-paradigm, politicization, and relgionization (I know that’s not a word…hehe).
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“(People like to go "oh yeah, well prove God doesn't exist!" Of course that's impossible. Just as impossible as proving elves don't exist, but you don't see many people worshiping elves even though it's impossible to prove they don't exist.)”
That example is a little misleading….you don’t have a major book of revelation about elves, you don’t have billions of believers in elves, you don’t have people becoming martyrs for elves, you don’t have people building schools, hospitals, missions in the name of elves, etc. But setting that aside…who has the burden of proof- believers or nonbelievers- is an interesting question.
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“Science does the same thing (virtually exactly the same thing) Science tells us this is how the world was created (I dont think they can prove how man evlolved yet tho) Science tells us a way we should live and the consequences of going against their objectives. Science tells us how the world will end.(Something like the sun finally going nova or something.)”
Madunicorn that has to be the most intelligent analysis I have seen you make
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“If you cant see the similarities I would say your as blind as the most blind religios zealots.(Dargon,Bush ).”
I love being labeled…just makes me feel warm in my stomach. Zealot…hmmm where is my sword so I can kill some heathen unless he confesses God.
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“states explicitly that God built the Internet.”
Everyone knows Al Gore invented the internet
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“Religion & Science has nothing in common sorry.
Science is real. Religion is a belief? it can be real or contradictions?”
I think a correct rendering of that thought is that Science is based on the physical senses and religion is based upon faith.
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“The key difference between scientific knowledge and religous knowledge isn't necessarily in the conclusions reached (although those are generally different between science and religion) but in the method used to obtain the knowledge.”
Didn’t copy the whole post Bort…but you are right on the money.
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“Thanks bort, didn't realise there are such interesting discussions before”
Yeah they were great discussions…I have been trying to relocate them for a while…thanks Bort;P
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Snogard
Known Hero
customised
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posted October 18, 2002 07:50 AM |
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Quote:
Science is perfect.
Religion can be but how do we know for sure?
People are not perfect
Er... just for discussion (argument) sake, if people aren't perfect, how could science be???
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Seize The Day.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 18, 2002 11:06 AM |
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Dargon I am speaking from personal experience in that I have lost count of the number of events such as the holocaust or a death in the family or whatever that when I have asked a church person (of whatever branch) their answers usually end with saying they cannot fathom the workings of god. I'm not saying every church person does this, or that the church is a major obstacle to progress, but it tends towards more preservation of it's myths than investigation of mysteries.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Aculias
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posted October 19, 2002 04:54 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Science is perfect.
Religion can be but how do we know for sure?
People are not perfect
Er... just for discussion (argument) sake, if people aren't perfect, how could science be???
We all know people are not perfect, thats why there are scientist for experiments.
Science is just matter & solutions.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2002 06:58 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Science is perfect.
Religion can be but how do we know for sure?
People are not perfect
Er... just for discussion (argument) sake, if people aren't perfect, how could science be???
That is so correct...I only wish more people would grasp that very serious fact! It would change many peoples worldview if they knew that science is very limited...limited by our own human fraility
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2002 07:01 AM |
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Edited By: dArGOn on 19 Oct 2002
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Quote:
Dargon I am speaking from personal experience in that I have lost count of the number of events such as the holocaust or a death in the family or whatever that when I have asked a church person (of whatever branch) their answers usually end with saying they cannot fathom the workings of god. I'm not saying every church person does this, or that the church is a major obstacle to progress, but it tends towards more preservation of it's myths than investigation of mysteries.
When someone asks me a serious question that involves religion/faith I do my utmost to not give an easy answer but a reasoned explanation. On the other hande...sometimes there just is no answer except a totally faith based answer.
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Aculias
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posted October 19, 2002 07:01 AM |
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How do we know how limited science is if we only learned so much & discovery of somethang new.
People dont make science unperfect, it's out there we just have to discover it.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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2XtremeToTake
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 19, 2002 07:17 AM |
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Like i said, give me one Piece of evidence that God exists. One SOLID peice of information that god exists......
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
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Aculias
Responsible
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posted October 19, 2002 07:22 AM |
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Like I been telling you guys it's contradictions & the bible was made by man.
We dont know.
Imagine what the world will be like if they didnt believe in heaven or hell.
There may be more violence.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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